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PeterT
Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 30
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 Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 9:14 am Post subject: Strange wordtracker phenomenon |
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Hi,
Maybe its just me, but I come across some real strange keywords at wordtracker these days. For example, take a look at these payday loans keywords:
cash advance atlantic city cash advance 1500dollarstoday.com
money fast easy cash advance fast money simplepaydayloan.com
personal loan payday loan cash advance simplepaydayloan.com
borrow cash cash advance borrow cash cashadvancesusa.com
There are well over a 1000 such keywords on this one topic. Keywords that sound real strange, have a URL appended (in a few cases, prefixed) to a phrase. In many cases, the phrase itself doesn't make much sense, as you can see from the above.
Nor is this limited to payday loans. Uut of 11 niches I researched over the past few days, I found large numbers of such keywords appearing in ten. None of the other niches are finance related, they're a pretty diverse bunch of topics.
It's almost as if someone used software to spam the metacrawlers with nonsensical combinations of phrases, each with a url attached. And wordtracker picked up those generated keyphrases and plonked them into their database.
I don't remember seeing this phenomenon till recently. Back in Nov 2004, I had extracted payday loans keywords from wordtracker and such keywords didn't appear then. There were a few urls appearing here and there, but nothing like what you see above.
Nor did I see this before in other niches.
Well, maybe this is a normal feature and I;m noticing it only now. Perhaps people do actually use such strange keyphrases to search. Anyone have any comments on this?
Best regards,
Peter |
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crying freeman
Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 161
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:09 am Post subject: |
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Peter,
Take a look at the piece I found at W.T.
money business ebooks clickbank directory go2clickbank.com
safelist clickbank marketplace go2clickbank.com
business money clickbank money go2clickbank.com
employment clickbank money internet go2clickbank.com
magic mental health clickbank marketplace go2clickbank.com
ideas clickbank go2clickbank.com
health money clickbank clickbank go2clickbank.com
cooking clickbank marketplace school travel go2clickbank.com
clickbank safelist safelist safelist go2clickbank.com
health business health clickbank go2clickbank.com
internet clickbank directory go2clickbank.com
home clickbank info email go2clickbank.com
That looks similar does it?
I found more then 200 phrases like this at Word Tracker last week.
If you put one of these phrase and paste it in your browser you'll end up on a Google search results page...
Regards,
C. Freeman |
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PeterT
Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| crying freeman wrote: |
If you put one of these phrase and paste it in your browser you'll end up on a Google search results page...
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Freeman,
Thanks for the reply. Glad to know others are getting these junk keywords as well! 
Not sure what you mean by the above statement, tho...you can't paste that entire phrase into your browser address bar coz the phrase as a whole is not a valid url, tho it contains a url.
Yeah, if you paste the phrase into google's search box, you'll get a results page...but I seem to be missing your point.
Basically, I'm wondering if these are really human generated queries. Or the result of some sort of glitch somewhere...
This assumes significance if you want to target 'low competition' keywords. You can't use keywords like the ones above to build webpages. And once you cull them out, you'll find that you really don't have very many low competition phrases in many niches.
Of course, this affects you only if you plan to build 'Neil Shearing' type sites and the like. If you're building regular Martell-style sites, you can always target phrases with higher competition and still get good traffic.
Cheers,
Peter |
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fester
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:14 am Post subject: It's A New 'Grey-Hat' SEO Tool |
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Hey PeterT;
I think this may have something to do with a new SEO tool that I've heard mention of. See it here:
http://www.savemoneyfast.com/
Seems it's a tool to 'get you out of the sandbox' - by submitting multiple queries of desireable keyword search phrases - then appends the client url to the query to (somehow) make it look to the SE that the link to the client site was clicked, thereby increasing the value and rank of the client site???
Read some reviews/feedback and tech stuff about it here:
http://forums.seochat.com/showthread.php?p=265243
They must be using MetaCrawler and/or Dogpile to submit some of these queries to (they say there's 100's of SE's they submit queries to), therefore affecting the Wordtracker results overall. Apparently this software submits 100's of queries PER MINUTE.
Yikes. The Google Gods better solve this one - fast. 
_________________
Decide for yourself: www.IsGoogleEvil.com
Because You'll Save Money: www.Web-Site-Hosting-Comparison.com |
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ihenman
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 353
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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Not sure what the cause is but I did contact WT on the situation as I researh 100's of words a week thru them. They say that there is no issue on their end, and they are still providing the ACTUAL terms that are searched...
So it's very possible it's something to do with the SEO tool mentioned above...One way or the other it's making the WT results less reliable then before. |
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PeterT
Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:18 am Post subject: |
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You may well be right.
I notice that these funny url-appended queries occur in the more competitive markets - finance, etc. They don't seem to turn up in niches with lower competition.
That could be because this new technology is being used to target the more lucrative markets initially.
Overall, it looks pretty awful.
Hope google and others wake up soon to this new threat to the relevancy of their listings.
Peter |
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ihenman
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 353
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 11:03 am Post subject: |
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Peter,
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I'm with you I hope someone wises up to it soon b/c I'm no longer confident in the words I have access to now that they are legit or not...Puts it on PAR with OVT. results. 
Guess we just wait it out!
-Ihenman |
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Charlie
Joined: 22 Aug 2003
Posts: 3305
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| ihenman wrote: | | I'm with you I hope someone wises up to it soon b/c I'm no longer confident in the words I have access to now that they are legit or not...Puts it on PAR with OVT. results. |
But at least at the moment the renegade results are easily spottable. Isn't it simply a matter of degree? There have always been a few "obviously" strange results from WT, if few.
With OT, it's the combining of results that's the problem. Much harder to read between the lines.
The problem is here - if WT is going to claim the purity of it's source by citing the metacrawlers, how can it censor results?
Just a thought,
Charlie.
_________________
"Before I speak, I have something important to say."
- Groucho Marx |
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PeterT
Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:16 am Post subject: |
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Charlie,
I agree that WT results are still far better than overture, for the reasons you mentioned.
| Charlie wrote: |
But at least at the moment the renegade results are easily spottable. Isn't it simply a matter of degree? There have always been a few "obviously" strange results from WT, if few.
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I'm not so sure that all the spam queries are easy to spot. When I look closely at WT data, it seems these spam generators also pound the metaengines with keyword combinations that don't contain urls. Here are some examples:
bad credit military loansno credit check cash advance
paydayloan utah online cash advance payday loan
These don't look like human generated queries. It's probably that software combining common keyword phrases into a longer phrase. Don't know exactly why.
And there are probably many other such phrases which we don't spot easily coz there's no url attached.
Perhaps a flurry of spam reports to google and yahoo might help (eventually)?
Cheers,
Peter |
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Charlie
Joined: 22 Aug 2003
Posts: 3305
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| PeterT wrote: | | I'm not so sure that all the spam queries are easy to spot. When I look closely at WT data, it seems these spam generators also pound the metaengines with keyword combinations that don't contain urls. |
Fair enough. I don't live in WT as much as some people. I tend to use occasional visits as a jump start. I can't say I've noticed too much of a problem, but I probably will if it lasts long...
| Quote: | | These don't look like human generated queries. It's probably that software combining common keyword phrases into a longer phrase. Don't know exactly why. |
Are they trying to push real search phrases off the bottom in specific niches or compromise WT generally? Probably something else altogether.
If I had to bet on this, I'd say it will turn out to be a short-lived storm in a teacup, however annoying it is right now.
Thanks for the info though,
Charlie.
_________________
"Before I speak, I have something important to say."
- Groucho Marx |
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ihenman
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 353
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 10:52 am Post subject: |
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Agreed that WT is still better then OVT. But if you're into making multiple sites, and use WT to determine competiion for those words etc. well...There's a chance that your building pages for a site that will only ever get results from a SPAM program 
Of course...you will pick up other traffic from other obscure keywords, but theres a good chance your page won't make sense 
Let's sit tight and wait to see what the WT folks have to say...I made it aware to my contact at the company what "I" thought may be going on, and that it could be damaging to the quality of their results in Internet Marketers eyes...
No response yet |
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AllanGardyne
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jul 2003
Posts: 6231
Location: by the beach, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Charlie wrote: | | Are they trying to push real search phrases off the bottom in specific niches or compromise WT generally? |
The phrases are generated by ludicrous software bought by gullible people who own the websites whose domain names appear in those phrases.
They've been sold the tall tale that you can increase a site's ranking by typing various phrases in search engines.
_________________
Allan Gardyne
AssociatePrograms.com - You're here. Explore it! |
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ihenman
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 353
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | They've been sold the tall tale that you can increase a site's ranking by typing various phrases in search engines. |
Disappointing isn't it ... it's just to bad it's hurting the WT results.. |
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Charlie
Joined: 22 Aug 2003
Posts: 3305
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| AllanGardyne wrote: | | The phrases are generated by ludicrous software bought by gullible people who own the websites whose domain names appear in those phrases. |
Be fair now - I did say...
| Quote: | | Probably something else altogether. |
| Quote: | | They've been sold the tall tale that you can increase a site's ranking by typing various phrases in search engines. |
If that's the case - how to punish the rascals...
It reminds me of something I was reading regarding WebPosition Gold software and it's use with Google.
The argument went along the lines of... "if Google could tell which queries were from WPG, all you'd have to do would be analyse a competitor's site to get them banned (if Google wanted to ban people)".
Surely a similar problem appears here.
Just a thought,
Charlie.
_________________
"Before I speak, I have something important to say."
- Groucho Marx |
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ihenman
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 353
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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Wanted to share the info I got from WT after notifying them of this issue.
| From WORDTRACKER wrote: |
>It has come to our attention that a program called SaveMoneyFast (http://www.savemoneyfast.com) has recently been developed to spam many of the major search engines and metacrawlers.
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>The concept is to append a domain to popular phrases. These new phrases are then submitted many thousands of time in various combinations (e.g. "Handball TeamHandBall MYSITE.COM") to the search engines and metacrawlers
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>Quoting the savemoneyfast site:
>'RankAttack technology does not submit your site to the search engines... rather it creates a persona of "popularity" around your site in the eyes of the search engines. The purpose in RankAttack technology is simple: get the search engines attention and make them want to list your website under the keywords you desire'
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>Unfortunately, this approach is skewing the popular keyword databases such as (our own) Wordtracker, KeywordDiscovery, Overture suggestion tool and the Google keyword tool.
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>However, we have improved our spam filter and 99% of these skewed terms have now been removed from the Wordtracker database.
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>For further reading on this software please see:
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>http://www.cjkcybermedia.com/seo_advisories.html
>http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/79-seo-software/
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