AssociatePrograms.com

Charlie · **Joined**: 22 Aug 2003 **Posts**: 3305 **Location**: UK

Please vote in the poll above (you have to be registered) and feel free to post opinions in the thread below.

Thanks,
Charlie.
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speedguide · Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 8:59 pm Post subject:

The multi-tier programs do not sway me one way or the other. Years ago I use to purchase an AmWay product for my business needs. After about 2 years I finally had to ask the sales lady.... How come you've never given me the AmWay pitch.

She said simple enough.... "If you want to hear it fine, but I don't want to waste my time recruiting people that never sell anything. I only make money when products sell". She decided to build a route and make sales. Anything else is or was a bonus.

I've never forgotten that lesson. Focus on your selling and anything extra is a plus. It does me no good to get lifetime commissions of ZERO... plus it kills a lot of time.

As I read the post on this and other forums... Most of all the problems could be solved with two easy words - "MORE SALES".

Our job is to figure out how to get more sales.

Gary
www.internet-speed-guide.com
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Charlie · **Joined**: 22 Aug 2003 **Posts**: 3305 **Location**: UK

Thanks for your post, Gary.

I'd rather not add my views until a few more people have commented... Wink

Cheers,
Charlie.
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"Before I speak, I have something important to say."
- Groucho Marx

Charlie · **Joined**: 22 Aug 2003 **Posts**: 3305 **Location**: UK

AllanGardyne · Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 8:49 am Post subject:

I wonder if the way you've phrased the questions is confusing some people? I'm confused anyway, because to me there's no such thing as a "multi-tier affiliate program".

There are one-tier and two-tier affiliate programs, and anything with more tiers is MLM. As I understand it, that's the generally accepted definition throughout the affiliate industry - certainly among most of the affiliate directories.

Sometimes people launching multi-tier programs call them affiliate programs. That's probably nearly always done because they know that affiliate programs have a better reputation than MLM programs.

In "multi-tier" I assume you're including two-tier programs?

Lawyers may argue that two-tier programs are the same as MLM programs, but to me there's a world of difference.

Anyway, "multi" means "many", and two is definitely not many, whatever the lawyers say.

For background on that, see:
"Are all two-tier programs MLM?"
http://AssociatePrograms.com/search/newsletter048.shtml

My vote: Re-word the poll and start again.
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Allan Gardyne
AssociatePrograms.com - You're here. Explore it!

speedguide · Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 9:33 am Post subject:

Charlie,

I went back and reread the question since Allan made it pop up to the top of my list again... and I wonder if he doesn't have a point.

With so many "un-performing" not under perfroming "promoters" (used loosely) do they even know what they've signed up for or what the program is?

Maybe the question needs to be rephrased or a new one started... How many programs that you are signed up for are multi-tiered?

I wonder if the question could be "too advanced"

--- By the way... your nephew was coming over yesterday, you seem to always look forward to him dropping by... we can learn so much from kids. They are so free, so open. Did you 2 enjoy the day?

I once read that is we want to see what the future will be like in 15 years... view it through the life of 15 year old.
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Gary
- ONE is to small of a number to be a success!
Learn HOW TO create targeted, focused Content for your website!--> http://webcontenttips.com - Join Our Weekly Newsletter

Charlie · **Joined**: 22 Aug 2003 **Posts**: 3305 **Location**: UK

Hello again.

Charlie · **Joined**: 22 Aug 2003 **Posts**: 3305 **Location**: UK

Hello Gary.

Sorry our posts crossed over...

ascreen · Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 6:03 pm Post subject:

Charlie,

If you're still looking for people's thoughts on MLM, I'm happy to share my $.02.

An affiliate program is a program where income is based primarily on commissions, regardless of the number of tiers. An MLM (as most people think of them today) is not based on commissions, but rather on membership fees. The labels are a little misleading. A program that pays sales-based commissions on 5 levels can be great, and a program that pays nothing but referral bonuses can be bad even if it is only 1 or 2 levels.

It really isn't so much about the number of levels in the program, it's about whether the company produces a good/service that someone would buy even if they weren't a member in the program.

That being said...

The number of tiers in a program is a spectrum. If the program has relatively few tiers, then you're counting on your own actions to generate income for yourself. If the program has many tiers, you're counting on other people's actions to generate income for yourself. It's not difficult to understand, then, why so few people actually make money in programs that have many tiers.

That's my $.02.

Clay
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Charlie · **Joined**: 22 Aug 2003 **Posts**: 3305 **Location**: UK

Hello Clay.

edgar · Guest

Hi

for me a two tier should be the maximum for an affiliate program.
we know whats the refutation about MLM nowadays..ist not good.
anything that is more than 2 level is already an MLM.

well..can you suggest a good 2 tier program?
i will be willing to join it..lol :

Regards
Ed

administrator · Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2003 8:32 am Post subject:

OK, the message is that this message board is NOT for the discussion of MLM's. I've given you some slack to clear the air on a few points and now I ask you to respect Allan's wishes.

I have now locked this topic.

Wally Morgan - Moderator

administrator · Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2003 8:22 pm Post subject:

Owing to popular demand, this topic is now unlocked with the reminder: "Please keep this discussion on the subject of multi-tier affiliate programs and avoid unnecessary reference to MLMs, or I will have to re-lock the thread". The quote is recommended by one of you as a condition for re-opening the thread!!! I've listened!

A bit of controversy is great and I must agree most comments really have reflected this request.

Again, thanks for your positive support for one another and this message board.

Wally Morgan - Moderator

Timothy Warnock · Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2003 8:25 am Post subject:

Hello,

Wally, I'm impressed! It's good to know that you are carefully watching over this forum - and will intervene when necessary - and it is also good to know that you carefully listen. I have seen very few moderators reverse a direction - your willingness to at least listen (even if you don't reverse a direction) will only create deeper loyalty from all of us that participate regularly here towards your decisions. Again, another testimonial to the helpfulness of this forum. Thanks.

Ok, now I am obliged to post after what I said in another thread! Let's see if I can walk the tightrope here...

Just for the sake of clarity and definition (Wally, I want to talk a little bit about MLM as a means of helping others to understand its pitfalls and subtle techniques that I find dangerous), it seems to me that MLM (also known in many cases as Pyramid schemes) is based almost entirely on creating a "downline" of paying participants - it starts getting foggy and grey when one doesn't have to pay to participate, but there are many levels (3 or more).

I think one of the aspects of most MLM programs that I find most disturbing is the almost cultish "family" and "team spirit" brainwashing techniques used. The phenomena is almost always the same - and it sucks people in by creating a sense of belonging combined with promises of wealth, "if you just get more individuals to sign up to join our team".

The reality of the matter is that these folks couldn't care less about you. If you find yourself in difficulty, I'd like to see how far their "family" attitude extends to help you out! Another reality is that the vast majority of participants lose to help the few at the top to win. Your efforts tend to reward others, not yourself.

Whereas a healthy affiliate program (one or two tiers) is focused on recognizing the reseller's efforts directly. There isn't all the useless "join our great family" crap, just helpful tips and techniques on how to sell better.

A second tier helps very few individuals, but can be very interesting for new product releases, especially if an individual has good contacts (knows big list owners of the target market). I am currently trying to convince a merchant right now to give me a second tier, because I have such contacts, and the product in question is new, unique, and of good quality - a second tier is especially good for helping to establish JVs, it can be a powerful motivator.

Beyond 2 tiers, the direct efforts of the affiliate that actually makes the sale starts to get too diluted, and starts to fatten the wallets of too many in the "upline". I think 2 tiers are widely accepted because it keeps the payment in one way or another directly related to actions involved.

As has been mentioned, to make money as an affiliate, one should focus on direct sales, any second tier income should be seen as a perk.

I hope this helps.

Tim
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