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Phil Tanny
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Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 4:01 pm
Post subject: less is more?
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How reasonable would it be to say that affiliate marketing,
as most of us are pursuing it, boils down to this?
1. keyword research
2. quality text content
3. links
Would we be giving good advice to a newbie if we advised
them to ruthlessly ignore everything else, so as to focus
100% of their attention on mastering those 3 tasks?
What other elements would you consider essential? By which I
mean, if we ignore that element we are sure to fail.
I would define success here as, the shortest possible
path to a webmaster having a site:
1) that the webmaster is proud of
2) that has an audience
3) that makes some money
I'm assuming that if someone can get to that point,
they are then ready, knowledge-wise and motivation-wise,
to encounter the world of a thousand options.
At that point, all the options could help them,
rather than overwhelm them.
How simple can we make success?
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AllanGardyne
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Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 10:53 pm
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Hi Phil
That's a beautiful summary.
It reminds me of an Internet marketing seminar I went to once. I talked to a man who'd paid thousands of dollars and attended a variety of seminars. He was totally overwhelmed by all the choices, and kept thinking that at the next seminar he'd find the "right" business idea for him.
I think it's important to serve your apprenticeship first. Building something very simple that makes a bit of money.
It's like the woodwork classes I took at school. We had to build a simple, useful magazine rack, which actually held magazines. My parents used it for years. While building it, we learned a variety of skills. Our first project wasn't a house - or a skyscraper.
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Phil Tanny
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Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:37 am
Post subject:
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G'day mate,
Thanks for your thoughts, much appreciated.
Yes, I agree, and even wonder if a less is more
approach could take a newbie well beyond apprenticeship.
Much of my inspiration for these thoughts comes from
your own impressive success, which seems to be based
on mastering basics.
Let's assume the novice has good researching/writing skills.
Without that foundation, I'm not sure if we should advise
them to pursue this field.
How simple can we make it for this person,
without neglecting aspects that are indeed essential?
1. Tech Stuff: The challenge of coding a really easy web
page creating tool that puts text articles on the Net
appeals to me. Let's assume me or somebody provides this.
2. Reality Training: More challenging, (much) let's assume
somebody figures out how to convince our newbie that nobody
but their mother really gives a darn what their site looks
like, assuming it's tidy with usuable navigation, _and_ has
solid content. Still learning this one myself, after 10 years.
3. Niche Research: Go to Overture and check ad prices. What
guidelines do we offer so the newbie can distinguish a hobby
topic from one that could be a business? Is this enough
research?
4. Could someone be taught the following keyword skills in one
day? What do you think? Is this enough?
a. get a competition search report from Wordtracker
b. sort keywords to find highest KEI's
c. basic on page SEO factors
5. Link building is pretty mechanical, and requires
more endurance than skill. How about an autoresponder
series that gives the student a few little link building
tasks every other day. Every time you launch a site
you restart this to do list. Teach link building as
a simple thing, that should however be a way of life.
Day 1 - User learns the web page maker tool.
Day 2 - User learns basic keyword research
Day 3 - User gets a primer on links
Day 4 - User is advised to, for now, ruthlessly
ignore all other web publishing info
Day 5 - User is advised that, assuming they master
above, their site will live or die based
on their ability to provide interesting,
useful, original content. More is better,
better is better. Content is king, etc.
The goal here is to eliminate all the distractions,
without losing any essentials.
How close are we to that?
I feel pretty comfortable on the tech side, but
hoping you guys might chime in on the marketing
side of this.
Thanks!
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edburdo
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Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:20 am
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I am going to keep an eye on this thread. I think it could be a good one. 
Lately my time has been seriously cut. My time to work on websites and my own income that is. So I have to be extremely selecective in what I read and do. I found this is actually very good. I don't just sit down and waste a couple of hours wandering around forums of various topics. I now have to pick and choose what I respond to, or even read in the first place.
It helps me stay focused. And I think this thread is very focused, so it's on my reading list.
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Phil Tanny
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Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 12:44 pm
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Glad to have you with us Eric, you always have useful things to say.
Talk about less is more, sometimes I wonder if I'd get more done if I didn't turn on the computer.
Seriously, get up in the morning, sit down at my desk with pencil, paper and a pile of library books, and write the very best articles I can, exactly the same way I wrote stuff for 25 years from 1970 to 1995, before I bought my first Mac and modem.
| edburdo wrote: | | And I think this thread is very focused, so it's on my reading list. |
Keep it on your writing list too. I hope you'll see my posts as a big question mark.
Maybe this will help humanize the thread a bit. I'm thinking here of one of my oldest online friends. Don't let me lead him astray, OK?
Smart guy, great personality, good solid researcher/writer. He has a lot to offer, and a desire to contribute/communicate.
Not a single tech bone in his body, the classic English major type (actual BA in English). He's been online 10 years, including responsible jobs in the Net industry, still can't make a web page on his own.  So, any tech tool we offer him has to be ruthlessly simple, and still get the basic job done.
More challenging, the hype-monsters have pretty much convinced him that everything to do with web marketing is voodoo baloney. I know, that's silly, but more common than people like you and me might realize perhaps. So, any marketing plan we offer him has to also be ruthlessly simple, but it also has to work, at least to some level of success.
Finally, making money online, any money, would really make a difference in his life.
Instead of lecturing Joe about work ethic etc (cluelessly tried that already ) can we provide him with a solution that meets him where he is?
What intrigues me is that, while all the many options in our business can be fun, and useful, maybe most of them really aren't necessary? Maybe lots of people would be better off without all the choices?
And if this thread should interest you guys, then maybe we're not just talking about newbies?
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blue1914
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Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:52 pm
Post subject: THANK YOU
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Thank you all for this topic-I will watch it with interest as I am developing. I am finding after knocking around a LOT that coming back to the basics (good keyword research, functional design instead of Flashy, building pagerank through link building) has a greater potential for long-term success than attempting to pop a few ads out on Google and wait for the cash to come rolling in (worked a little not a lot).
The autoresponder course idea is STELLAR-and thank all of you who have "reached the mountain top" for reaching out to those of us who are struggling up the slope. |
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AllanGardyne
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Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:00 pm
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One obvious problem with stripping instructions to the bare bone is that you inevitably leave out essential information.
I tried to keep my free Affiliate Program Tutorial as short as possible, but it kept growing and growing, and also provides links for more information.
If I asked a lot of experienced affiliates how to improve it, I imagine most of them would suggest things that could be added, not removed.
However, it IS very useful to have a neat summary to keep reminding newcomers of the three most important things on which they should concentrate their time and energy:
1. Do keyword research.
2. Write useful, interesting text, preferably describing how a product helps you, or helps someone.
3. Get links to your site, preferably from popular, related sites.
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Phil Tanny
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Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:36 pm
Post subject:
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| AllanGardyne wrote: | | One obvious problem with stripping instructions to the bare bone is that you inevitably leave out essential information. |
Yes, like what? That's what we might try to define. What information is truly essential? ie. If you don't have it, you fail.
| AllanGardyne wrote: | | I tried to keep my free Affiliate Program Tutorial as short as possible, but it kept growing and growing, and also provides links for more information. |
One page, even a long one, is pretty concise, as compared to buying 23 different ebooks. Your tutorial is part of what started me down this trail. Would it be reasonable to say that many of the folks who have passed through here would be better served if all they had was your tutorial, and nothing else?
You print out that page, read it first thing every morning.
And then you are almost immediately faced with the question, "Am I going to actually do this, or not?" Put up, or give up, right now, not many months from now after a lot of time and money spent every which way.
That's not perfect, but isn't it better (for some) than getting sucked in to the year long analysis paralysis rabbit hole?
| AllanGardyne wrote: | | However, it IS very useful to have a neat summary to keep reminding newcomers of the three most important things on which they should concentrate their time and energy |
More than reminders? How about actively selling a less is more philosophy, backed up by the appropriate tool, as an alternative to info overload?
The key seems to be, what exactly is essential?
Thanks for the thoughts, keep them coming.
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edburdo
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:21 am
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I think your on to something Phil. The whole "stop using the computer" might be a good approach for many people. Especially those of us with ADD (no, I haven't been diagnosed... but I tend to get scattered when I go online... too much multitasking).
Do all your initial brainstorming and research on paper. Then use something like WordTracker to do the next round of keyword research. Then go back to paper and pen to write the articles.
A friend of mine does that for all the websites he creates. It helps him get his ideas down first. I know when I am on the PC, I tend to dive in headfirst. And skip the research and planning. If I do that on paper, it is harder to skip.
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Eric D. Burdo
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carpunky
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:28 am
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I have a couple theories now , even though I sometimes still fail to follow these .
1. Quality under-saturated product ( preferablly new )
2. Professional Sales page
2. ppc campaign
You just have to keep up with the market and what they want....Content is excellent don't get me wrong but with everyone and there brother with a website these days....I think it would be easier for a newbie to get some results and stay motivated.
Kinda like when you have a bad day golfing and on the 18th you hit the green on your second shot...makes you want to come back for more.
Jeff
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varunpratap
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:44 am
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You know I've been noticing somethings.. when I started with my first site.. it looked horrible(well horrible is better word I think) ... had good content but I experiement so much with that site that it is yet to recoverd from setback 
actually the list you provided(tech stuff n all) is not the worry.. I mean if you give like 2 hrs a day you can build up a reasonable lookin webpage in less than a week... you can easily learn how to set up autoresponder n other stuff
I mean this stuff is easy....
the harder part is when it comes down to start working on it..
Taking action..
lots of people take action but they stops in midway when they dont' see results(see my first site is sort of failure) but I didn't wanted to stop.. I build 3 more sites and 10+ blogs... and the good thing is I m seeing money now.. and my 4th site is like 100 times better than my first one.
I don't follow ken evoy's idea of following your hobby. Tho I hav a site which I just wanted for my own ego boost may be...
normally avg guy would hav stopped at most at second site... but I was not...man.. I needed to crack the code...
and the worriesome part is I still suck at researching niche n keywords...
I think I closed 5 of my blogs due to wrong set of niche... I am right now experiment a lot...
There's always learning curve involved... you hav to hav some failures in the process..
I hav one of those post Alan wrote(on making money with adsense and calculating how much pages you need)... I read it daily... to me that was the simplest thing I read...
I didn't wanted to worry about x% of keywords in articles. I didn't wanted to worry about secret site map or blogging technique... I just wanted to put out somethign that works..
I not raking in huge $$ but it's going in right direction.. I m getting one or 2 affiliate sales a day... so I think I m on right path...
Varun Pratap
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Voasi
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:20 pm
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I think Brett's 26 steps ( http://www.searchengineworld.com/misc/guide.htm ) is a great guide to follow, affiliate site or not.
It's becoming continually harder to spam and manipulate Google. The other search engines it's no problem, but if you want to have great placement in Google, continue (daily) building up a site worth being mentioned, clicked on, or bought from. Flush out a resource on the net that you can be proud of.
Building these kinds of sites will only help you sustain a REAL business model online, rather then building 100's of spammy/semi-spammy sites that can last only months.
On another note, don't let the Sandbox get you down. Follow the 26 steps. If it takes a year, then it takes a year. Don't abandon a project that could reap an extra $100, $1000, $10,000 $100,000 etc.. a day/month/year.
Just a couple of cents
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Last edited by Voasi on Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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blue1914
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:28 pm
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If there is one thing I am noticing about this whole Affiliate marketing thing, it's that it's the biggest chess game I have ever come across. Chess is probably the best metaphor I can think of for it-rules that seem deceptively easy to learn, yet a wise man or woman could spend years of their life trying to master the intricacies of the game.
That said, I like the idea of sticking to the basics-as many basics as you can-mainly because the way one plays the game depends largely on skill, desire and determination. Of the three, skill is the only one that can be developed-the other two must be in place before one begins to play.
Just like any game, skill is developed through practicing the basics. Though it's possible to leave things out of a stripped down system, a truly determined player of the game will develop his/her own style of play once they have a firm grasp of the basics. With the basics in place, how well one plays the game then falls to the next two factors-desire and determination.
While I appreciate the desire expressed in the discussion above to shortcut the learning curve as much as possible, it's inevitable that there WILL be a learning curve. That learning curve can only be scaled through desire and determination to employ the new skills acquired by learning the basics.
This is my long book to say-once you get past the basics, all that's left is an individual's desire to succeed-a stripped down course will likely be as effective or even more so that a comprehensive one to someone who TRULY looks to succeed in this business-and this is all spoken as a relative newbie who is trying to feel his way around the chess board. |
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blue1914
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:39 pm
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THANK YOU-this is an excellent guide-I will definitely be using this to begin re-work of my site and strategy today! |
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Phil Tanny
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:03 am
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Yes, thanks for the reminder, that is a great article. Very on point. I'm due a revisit, appreciate it.
I've thought of a few more items that might be considered essential.
1) Allan referenced pre-selling. Not sure a brand new newbie needs to master this out of the gate (there's always Adsense) but they probably should at least be introduced to this important concept from the beginning. Maybe a Phase 1 focuses on Adsense income, and a Phase 2 focuses on pre-selling and affiliate income.
2) I'm concerned that KEI and some other keyword research approaches are just too general in nature for some. Reading too many reports of folks who worked 6 months on their site before realizing they would need 6,324 links to get anywhere near page one of SERPs. I'd like to know what the highest PR on page one of SERP's are for my keywords before diving in to content creation. If most of them are PR 7-8, I'm in the wrong topic if I'm new to this.
3) Here's an essential I'm clear on. Some folks just weren't born with the writing gene. They have other talents, but stringing words together in to coherent meaning just isn't one of them. These folks need to be steered away from text content creation in to something else from the get go.
4) Not essential maybe, but I feel it would be very useful for a new person to submit their first business plan to an expert for review before they begin serious work. Can this newbie write? Is there hope for their topic? Did they at least sort of get the keyword research right? Not ongoing hand holding (we've agreed that's probably too expensive) but at least a quick review, an hour consulting session, some way for the newbie to know they are generally headed in the right direction.
How about topic profitability research? Do you guys feel checking ad prices on Overture is adequate for a first project?
If yes, what kind of prices tell you the topic is a business opportunity, not just a hobby?
I agree with above posters that there is an inevitable learning curve here if someone wants to do this seriously.
I'm not attempting to eliminate the learning curve, but manage it.
What's happening in too many cases now is that the entire learning curve gets dumped on folks right at the start, and they drown in all the info and options.
What's the minimum amount of info needed to get someone of reasonable talent and motivation to at least modest success?
What's essential?
Once that modest level of success is acheived, we have a very different person on our hands, and THEN we can sell them 74 ebooks and 37 techno gizmos without sinking their ship.
Thanks again for the discussion.
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