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Fab
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Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:37 pm
Post subject: Is cross-linking really bad?
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Is cross-linking really bad? This is a hard question to me. I cannot really believe it. When we discussed the Google dropdown of James Martell?s sites he said one problem was cross-linking. I don't believe so.
Here's why:
Think of any topic. Three of the top sites link all to each other. This makes perfect sense to the searcher so it's good for the SEs as well, isn't it? SEs always want to provide the best search results. Search results are the PRODUCT of search engines. Can you believe Google harms those three top site because of their cross-linking? I can't.
Ken Evoy says in his affiliate manual something like "Don't forget to interlink all of your sites". Well Ken is NOT a SEO guru but a highly respected internet marketing guru  I don't think he would write it when in doubt.
Any other thoughts on this?
Fabian |
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AllanGardyne
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Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:31 pm
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Crosslinking is OK.
Excessive crosslinking is not OK.
Both Yahoo! and Google warn website owners about excessive crosslinking.
The problem is, they don't carefully define excessive crosslinking, so no one knows for sure exactly how much crosslinking is regarded as OK and where the line is drawn.
You find out when you overstep the mark.
I linked three of my sites together, then linked them a litttle bit more, and a little bit more... I wasn't penalized in any way. I had dozens of links in place and wasn't penalized for ages. I linked those three sites a little bit more and Wham!
Yahoo! penalized all three sites. Google didn't.
Be careful, but there's no need to be paranoid.
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Allan Gardyne
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robertb
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Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Is cross-linking really bad?
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| Fab wrote: |
Think of any topic. Three of the top sites link all to each other. This makes perfect sense to the searcher so it's good for the SEs as well, isn't it? SEs always want to provide the best search results. Search results are the PRODUCT of search engines. Can you believe Google harms those three top site because of their cross-linking? I can't. |
You're absolutely right, but that doesn't fit the definition of "cross-linking" that is bad; that's simply a LINK EXCHANGE. CROSS-LINKING would be if ONE PERSON owned multiple sites and linked them together. Emphasis on ONE PERSON.
Ken did comment about this before and mentioned that just do it where it seems natural, but don't over do it simply for ranking purposes.
What Google doesn't want is one person dominating an entire niche with multiple sites on the same niche. Realistically, Google is probably using topic specific page rank now so that someone cross-linking their sites on different niches probably won't carry much, if any weight anyways.
But look at this from Google's perspective. Say I PERSONALLY own 10 cell phone sites. Each site has 1000 pages. I cross link these entire sites with each other using the footer on each page. Instantly, there's about 9000 links into each of those sites from each other. Should Google give those sites as much weight as a single cell phone site with 9000 inbound links, all from different sites not owned by one person?
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Robert
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Strategies
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Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Is cross-linking really bad?
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| robertb wrote: | | You're absolutely right, but that doesn't fit the definition of "cross-linking" that is bad; that's simply a LINK EXCHANGE. CROSS-LINKING would be if ONE PERSON owned multiple sites and linked them together. Emphasis on ONE PERSON. |
So realistically what's to keep that one person from just hiding the contact details in WHOIS and crosslinking away? |
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robertb
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Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 3:27 am
Post subject: Re: Is cross-linking really bad?
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| Strategies wrote: |
So realistically what's to keep that one person from just hiding the contact details in WHOIS and crosslinking away? |
That's always a possibility, if you're determined enough you can always get around things.
But it's against the terms and you could easily lose your domain over it. I certainly wouldn't want to lose my domain over something stupid like that after building my site up.
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Robert
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Fab
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Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:51 am
Post subject: Re: Is cross-linking really bad?
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| AllanGardyne wrote: | | You find out when you overstep the mark. |
I guess it?s too late then
| robertb wrote: | | But look at this from Google's perspective. Say I PERSONALLY own 10 cell phone sites. Each site has 1000 pages. I cross link these entire sites with each other using the footer on each page. Instantly, there's about 9000 links into each of those sites from each other. |
Ok, I understand this as excessive cross-linking. But let?s say I have 100 sites in the sports sector. Each of the sites has a link section where it?s linked to all of the other 99 sites. This absolutely makes sense from my point of view because they're all about sports! Would you call this excessive cross-linking?
Fabian |
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robertb
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Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 1:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Is cross-linking really bad?
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| Fab wrote: | | Would you call this excessive cross-linking? |
See, that's EXACTLY why I don't do it. The only thing that determines the cut-off is Google themselves, and that cut-off could change overtime as they tweak their algorithms.
Personally, it's a chance I'm not willing to take because no one knows what is considered excessive and what isn't.
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Charlie
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Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Is cross-linking really bad?
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| robertb wrote: | | What Google doesn't want is one person dominating an entire niche with multiple sites on the same niche. |
I'd still love to see the engines treat closely associated sites as one large site, rather than penalise one or more of them.
| Quote: | | But look at this from Google's perspective. Say I PERSONALLY own 10 cell phone sites. Each site has 1000 pages. I cross link these entire sites with each other using the footer on each page. Instantly, there's about 9000 links into each of those sites from each other. Should Google give those sites as much weight as a single cell phone site with 9000 inbound links, all from different sites not owned by one person? |
What's the difference between doing this and suddenly adding a link to a new page on the single domain from all other pages?
If groups of associated sites were treated together, people could still use the branding benefits of specific but related domain names, without destroying the SERPS. Just indent the other pages like Google already does.
Cheers,
Charlie.
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Phil Tanny
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Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:55 am
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| AllanGardyne wrote: | | I linked three of my sites together, then linked them a litttle bit more, and a little bit more... I wasn't penalized in any way. I had dozens of links in place and wasn't penalized for ages. I linked those three sites a little bit more and Wham! . |
So Allan, how did you respond to this? Did you get your Yahoo rankings back?
If you cast your vote for Phil For President, it will once again be legal to link to your own darn sites!
By the way, did you read that Gooble (why not?) just announced that if you use certain words on your pages you will be forever banned from the Internet? These certain words in question are of course a closely held secret. Just kidding! I hope!
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mattieboy
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Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 9:35 am
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I do interlink my sites where it makes sense to introduce the visitor to another site.
I have also been penalized once. At that time I thought I had developed a really clever format for interlinking my sites. My guess is that the SE's saw the pattern and decided that I was playing them. Need I say more.
After that incident - needless to say - I do not follow any pattern or formula. I only interlink where it makes sense and never as an isolated link in the footer area.
I am not claiming to know how to interlink safely. Just sharing my experience.
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AllanGardyne
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Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:26 am
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| Phil Tanny wrote: | | Did you get your Yahoo rankings back? |
Not yet. If I manage to, I'll write about it.
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Allan Gardyne
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Charlie
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Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:45 pm
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| Phil Tanny wrote: | | By the way, did you read that Gooble (why not?) just announced that if you use certain words on your pages you will be forever banned from the Internet? These certain words in question are of course a closely held secret. Just kidding! I hope! |
I know of someone who wrote an article about optimising for Google and had all his sites banned, as a result. This is years ago, and since then he has had to resort to a campaign of "dubious" whois records to get anything in.
It always pays to praise the people you depend on for traffic.
Cheers,
Charlie.
P.S. Let's hope "Gooble" have more of a sense of humour.  
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Phil Tanny
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Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:57 pm
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| Charlie wrote: | | I know of someone who wrote an article about optimising for Google and had all his sites banned, as a result. This is years ago, and since then he has had to resort to a campaign of "dubious" whois records to get anything in. |
One article gets him banned? This fellow might have used this experience to learn that so long as he is _that_ dependant on any one somebody for his success, he is in a precarious position, and his future can't be counted on.
Your story reminds me of the big San Francisco earthquake in the early part of the last century. After the quake had leveled the city, all the whites rushed to rebuild it. And the Indians looked down upon this rebuilding from the hills above and scratched their heads in baffled mystery.
OK, point taken, no more Gooble jokes, it was fun while it lasted though.
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Charlie
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Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:32 pm
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| Phil Tanny wrote: | | One article gets him banned? This fellow might have used this experience to learn that so long as he is _that_ dependant on any one somebody for his success, he is in a precarious position, and his future can't be counted on. |
He was still #1 for "marketing" on AV, so it wasn't all bad.
Cheers,
Charlie.
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