Joined: 21 Dec 2003 Posts: 26 Location: Cancun, Mexico
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:15 pm Post subject: findwhat.com affiliate program at CJ - deceptive tactics
Here is the blurb for Findwhat.com at CJ (as at today):
"Description: FindWhat.com Advertiser Referrer Affiliate Program through Commission Junction can provide you with the opportunity to make some additional revenue, while providing your customers with a special offer! For each new advertiser who opens and funds a FindWhat.com account with an initial $50.00 deposit, you will receive a $10.00 payment. On top of that your site visitor will receive a $5.00 credit to their account. Simply refer the advertiser through the creative links provided. We have provided a variety of text links and banners for you to utilize on your site and will frequently update our creative to help you keep your site fresh. FindWhat.com is a performance-based marketing company, which focuses on driving targeted traffic to websites. We hope you join our program and refer your site visitors to FindWhat.com! Note: This program applies to advertisers new to FindWhat.com. Publishers referring existing or duplicate accounts will not be paid for those referrals. "
What they neglect to tell you here, is that their minimum deposit is $25.
I sent an email to findwhat's affiliate manager:
******
"Greetings,
I'm looking at joining your affiliate program at CJ.
The blurb at CJ says:
"For each new advertiser who opens and funds a FindWhat.com account with an initial $50.00 deposit, you will receive a $10.00 payment. On top of that your site visitor will receive a $5.00 credit to their account."
From what I can see at the findwhat.com site your minimum deposit is $25.00
So if I send someone to your site and they only deposit $25, I won't get any commission. Correct?
Regards,"
*******
The reply:
*******
"Thank you for contacting us regarding our Affiliate Referral Program.
Yes, you are correct in you email, however if someone signs up through
your link, and they see they will receive $5.00 if they deposit $50.00,
they will more times than none deposit the $50.00 so that they can
receive the incentive.
Please feel free to contact us if you would have any further questions.
Best Regards,
Stephanie Fretwell
Affiliate Affairs Coordinator
FindWhat.com
5220 Summerlin Commons Blvd., Ste. 500
Fort Myers, FL 33907
NASDAQ: FWHT"
*******
My only further question I sent them in my next email was:
"Of all the leads sent to you via CJ, how many deposited $25 and how many deposited $50. ???"
Unsurprisingly, that question has not been answered.
Now, if I was signing up to try out a PPC and the minimum deposit was $25 and they offered me a measley $5 extra for depositing $50, I'd be saying "no thanks" and just putting the $25 in.
I get the feeling Findwhat KNOWS this would generally be the case.
So if you're sending traffic to Findwhat via CJ in the hope of getting paid for leads, I'd be guessing your commissions will be few and far between and that you're GETTING SCREWED by Findwhat.
Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 5839 Location: by the beach, Australia
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:39 am Post subject:
I can understand your concern. However, I've found FindWhat good to deal with. I recently suggested one change in the way the program operated and FindWhat said it would do what I suggested. I don't have any complaints. Out of all the PPC companies, I think it's definitely one of the best. _________________ Allan Gardyne
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Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 5839 Location: by the beach, Australia
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:25 am Post subject: Re: findwhat.com affiliate program at CJ - deceptive tactics
Drewbert wrote:
So if you're sending traffic to Findwhat via CJ in the hope of getting paid for leads, I'd be guessing your commissions will be few and far between and that you're GETTING SCREWED by Findwhat.
One difference between us here is that you're describing guesses. I'm describing personal experience with a company that has been good to work with and willing to listen.
From what you describe, FindWhat's affiliate program at CJ could be improved. I don't think the best way to achieve that is to use offensive language.
I'll see if I can get some more comment on this from FindWhat. _________________ Allan Gardyne
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Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 5839 Location: by the beach, Australia
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 10:36 pm Post subject:
I asked John A. Moran, Vice President of Operations at FindWhat, for his view on this. He replied:
"Thanks for the info. I was aware of another string similar to this at
the same site. However, being a publicly traded company, we are not
able to post messages on message boards.
"I'll inform Stephanie that her reply made it onto the message board and
ensure that she responds to the person emailing her.
"What they are claiming to be an issue has never really been an issue.
This is absolutely no different than a store providing a coupon where
you would get "$10 off if you spent at least $100." The customer could
go to the store and spend $25, but they wouldn't get $10 off because
they didn't meet the coupon's criteria. Additionally, the average
dollar amount of sign-ups coming in from CJ is over $50 (including the
ones that come in at $25.) Furthermore, regardless of the offer a
customer could come directly to FindWhat.com, but they wouldn't get ANY
bonus dollars no matter how great their deposit (we do sometimes do
special offers at tradeshows, but most of those require either a $50 or
$100 minimum deposit.)
"The above being said, we also physically speak with every customer that
comes in via affiliate referral programs and, if they only deposited
$25, we would inform them that they needed to deposit an additional $25
to get their free advertising dollars. Most do.
"Lastly, we have recently launched a new account sign-up wizard on our
homepage and we intend to roll this out to our affiliate referral
program in the coming months. This would allow the minimum to be set
via the wizard, so you wouldn't be able to add less than the minimum.
We have one referral partner whose offer requires a $200 minimum
deposit, many that require $100, and even more at $50 (old partners
minimums were $25.)" _________________ Allan Gardyne
... earning a good living from affiliate programs since 1998.
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Joined: 21 Dec 2003 Posts: 26 Location: Cancun, Mexico
Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 1:53 am Post subject: what a load of horse ****
>What they are claiming to be an issue has never really been an issue.
Excuse me?
>This is absolutely no different than a store providing a coupon where
>you would get "$10 off if you spent at least $100." The customer could
>go to the store and spend $25, but they wouldn't get $10 off because
>they didn't meet the coupon's criteria.
That's NOT the point. Funny how you missed it.
John Moran is forgetting to mention that he has affiliates handing those "coupons" out, and those affiliates are under the mistaken impression that they get paid for every signup - because John Moran's public company has decied not to make it clear in the CJ detail page that they only pay out if the client spends $50 with the coupon,and that if the client only spends the minumum $25, the affiliate gets zilch.
>Additionally, the average
>dollar amount of sign-ups coming in from CJ is over $50 (including the
>ones that come in at $25.)
So, when you average it out, you're only deceiving your affiliate less than 50% of the time, so that makes it OK?
What's with this, John? Did you graduate from the Enron school of creative acconting?
If your paying people (affiliates) a commission for handing out coupons, why won't you be up-front with them and tell them they only get paid on incentive sales? Why doesn't your CJ details mention the fact that your minimum deposit is $25 and you don't pay affiliates a bean if one of their leads only deposits $25?
DECEPTION can be the only reason, unless I'm missing somethign here.
Actually, I think YOU missed it. The terms state you earn a commission for a $50 deposit, not a $25 dollar deposit. Nowhere does it say they only accept $50 deposits. I agree, it is DEFINITELY skewed in the merchants favor and I wouldn't promote it, but the terms are layed out for everyone to see. If you don't like the terms, don't promote them. That's the whole point of giving a program it's due diligence before joining.
You shouldn't just look at the terms ... you should also view the site where you would find the info on the $25 ... while it would be nice if merchants were more clear, it doesn't always happen so it is "Buyer Beware" or in our case "Affiliate Beware"
Debs _________________ Learn how to turn keyphrases into quality, well-targeted articles your visitors and SE's will love with Gary Antosh's new ebook "Web Content Made Easy!"
Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 5839 Location: by the beach, Australia
Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 10:57 pm Post subject:
Guest wrote:
If you don't like the terms, don't promote them. That's the whole point of giving a program it's due diligence before joining.
Excellent point.
However, I get the impression that some affiliates are scared away from some merchants unnecessarily. I'm not saying you should promote a merchant if you believe it's using underhand methods. However, if you merely ASSUME you won't receive a fair payout and move on, you could be making a mistake.
The real test is to try a program and see what EPC (earnings per click) you receive. That's the ultimate way to compare programs.
Also, you might decide to promote a product with a slightly lower EPC anyway, simply because you like the product better and feel comfortable recommending it. _________________ Allan Gardyne
... earning a good living from affiliate programs since 1998.
Learn how.
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Joined: 28 Aug 2004 Posts: 19 Location: Bloomsbury, London WC1
Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 2:03 am Post subject:
As always, Allan's advice is spot on.
One other thing: I'd also caution against promoting Findwhat on sites catering for non-North American webmasters. Findwhat insist on 'international' members faxing a copy of their credit card statement before they are accepted. Of all the ten PPCSEs I use, it's the only one that places such an obstacle before new advertisers. Because I wasn't able to fulfill that requirement, they didn't accept my new account. They show no leniency. _________________ Nadeem Azam.biz - develop a residual income stream
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