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Larry Chamberlain
Joined:
01 Aug 2003
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1184
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Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 6:47 pm
Post subject: A question or three about link exchanging.
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Hi Folks,
A question or three about link exchanging.
Having a look through my resources/links page, I found that about 40% of sites that I link to have not, as yet, given a link back. Hmm...
But this could be my own fault. What I have been doing is finding what I consider to be suitable sites (that have links pages), putting up a link on my links page, then sending them an email saying how much I liked their site ect. ect. And informing them that the link to their site is up and suggesting that they link back.
I thought this was a positive way of doing it, maybe for some folks it's a bit too positive!
Would you try for exchanges like this?
Would you email before putting up their link?
How long would you leave their link up before tacking it down? (or would you leave it up? as the point of linking is supposed to be to provide your visitors with useful resources, it's just that I'm a bit on the mercenary side  )
I'd be very interested in your thoughts.
All the best,
Larry Chamberlain.
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Charlie
Joined:
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3305
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Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 7:47 pm
Post subject: Re: A question or three about link exchanging.
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Hello Larry.
| Larry wrote: | | Having a look through my resources/links page, I found that about 40% of sites that I link to have not, as yet, given a link back. |
Are you complimenting them on something specific on their site, when you email them?
Maybe you need to educate them as to the benefits of incoming links to their site. (Think "what's in it for them".)
Thirdly, are you providing them with "cut and paste" code to save them any effort? (They may have very limited HTML skills.) This not only makes it easier for them, but encourages them to use your primary key phrase in the anchor text of the link - vital for your site's "reputation". Maybe you could ask them what they'd like you to use for their anchor text, too.
| Larry wrote: | | Would you try for exchanges like this? |
Yes, if I thought the link would be appreciated by my visitors. But I'd certainly open a new browser window, as you are doing. Secondly, I'd consider making my outgoing links dynamic (created by JavaScript) in the interests of "bleeding" PageRank. Make sure your incoming links are static text links though, if you possibly can, so that the SEs can count and follow them. (A bit sneaky maybe, so if you're linking from a non-SE-optimised page, maybe you should stick to static text links all round.)
| Larry wrote: | | Would you email before putting up their link? |
No, I'd put up the link first as an act of good faith.
| Larry wrote: | | How long would you leave their link up before tacking it down? |
If the link is worth putting up in the first place, why take it down at all? You can always make it dynamic, if you must! 
Just my thoughts,
Charlie.
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Niall Kennedy
Joined:
10 Sep 2003
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76
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Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:15 pm
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Larry
Linking presents lots of issues doesn't it?
On one hand I crave inbound links, particularly with relevant anchor text. It appears to be becoming the main part of Google's algo for relevancy for a search result.
On the other, outbound links can deflect from the desired action I want my visitor to make (buy, click an affiliate link, etc).
(I should point out that I am talking about an ecommerce site rather than an informational one, where a linking strategy would be different, and I would want to point my visitors to other sources of info.)
For what its worth, I add a potential link partner to my site before making contact with a personal email. If the link partner has not added my site after 4 weeks I would politely make contact again - you'd be surprised how effective this is in reminding people. After a further 2 weeks the link would be removed from my site.
Charlie makes some excellent suggestions for how to approach potential partners.
However, I'd be wary of making your links using JavaScript to avoid Google spidering them. There are pros and cons of course, but if someone wanted to link to me with JavaScript I'd politely decline. If you want to benefit from PageRank you have to be willing to give it out.
| Quote: |
Charlie said:
Maybe you need to educate them as to the benefits of incoming links to their site. (Think "what's in it for them".) |
I'm interested in this idea, and someone suggested that you should include a link to an article about the benefits of linking, in your link request email.
My thoughts were that if a site has a links page, they are already aware of the benefits.
Am I right or wrong in thinking this?
Niall |
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Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:41 pm
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| Niall Kennedy wrote: | | However, I'd be wary of making your links using JavaScript to avoid Google spidering them. There are pros and cons of course, but if someone wanted to link to me with JavaScript I'd politely decline. If you want to benefit from PageRank you have to be willing to give it out. |
Niall, to be fair, I did say it was "a bit sneaky maybe"!
I think a links page such as Larry's shouldn't interfere with your "most wanted response" too much, especially opening in a new window.
Besides maybe there are benefits to link swapping from a pure content point of view (enhanced visitor experience), whether you gain a SE-trackable incoming link or not.
Just a thought,
Charlie. |
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Larry Chamberlain
Joined:
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1184
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Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 10:07 pm
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Hi Niall and Charlie,
Thanks, some good suggestions there.
Yes Charlie, I try to pay them a genuine compliment and say something to let them know that I have actually visited their site and that the email isn't from an auto link exchange.
The "cut and paste" idea is a brilliant one! I never thought of that.
>> Secondly, I'd consider making my outgoing links dynamic (created by JavaScript) in the interests of "bleeding" PageRank.<<
Javascript is probably far too techie for me, but yes I am interested in bleeding PageRank, as much bleeding PageRank as possible!
Niall, yes I have thought about following up, but been shy of doing it in case some folks thought it too pushy. After all these link request could conceivably be considered UCE, they are Unsolicited, they are Commercial, and they are Email. But as you say that you get a good response, perhaps I'm being over cautious, I'll give it a try.
Thanks again Guys.
All the best,
Larry Chamberlain.
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Debs
Joined:
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4296
Location:
NY
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Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:03 pm
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Re: Bleeding pagerank
Your time to prevent bleeding of your pagerank would be better spent on doing javascript or span tags with your affiliate referrals than with link exchanges.
Consider this: only the page the link is on bleeds rank to outgoing link sites, and once you place any outgoing or internal links on that page, you are already bleeding pagerank to the pages you linked to.
I agree that exchanging links, whether it is to provide additional resources to your visitors or help with pagerank, should not be coded in such a way as to keep Google from indexing. When I look at sites to exchange with I check their coding to be sure the link can be indexed. If it can't, and the content isn't phenomenal, I am gone.
If their content is great and would be a real benefit for my visitors, I will link to the site, request a link back (since I may get visitors from them), but will use my own words and link placement to describe the site. In other words, I won't necessarily give them keywords in the link text that I would with a more mutually beneficial link exchange.
One of the things I did in the past, which was quite successful ...
1. Place link on my site;
2. Personal email to site owner offering their listing placed prominently on the link page (toward the top) with bold lettering if they would place my link on their site.
I had a great response rate when there was an incentive for them to return the link.
Best wishes,
Debs
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Rupert
Joined:
20 Jul 2003
Posts:
38
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Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:31 am
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I have just been reading SiteSell's tips on getting incoming links and one tip they suggested actually works quite well.
You can search for your site's keywords and add "add url" or "submit site" to the end of your search. Here are some examples
"Specific Keyword" +"add url"
"Specific Keyword" +"suggest a site"
"Specific Keyword" +"submit site"
"Specific Keyword" +"reciprocal links"
This is actually quite a good way to find link exchange partners and most of them are automated so you don't have to wait around for a response.
Only exchange links with sites that have a page rank!
I've never had much luck with getting links after about 50 emails to sites with friendly comments about their sites I received only 3 responses and 1 link back.
As for bleeding pagerank I wouldn't worry too much. Deep down I have a feeling that Google will reward web masters who provide a links page that links to other high quality sites on the topic. Often links pages rank quite highly which seems to be the reverse of what you would expect. Links pages are a useful resource.
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Debs
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Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 3:31 am
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Using the keyword reference with "add link" etc is an excellent idea and one I am just starting to use.
One caution however ... don't add your link if it will be one of over 100 on the page ... be a little selective ... you don't really want your link on a link farm ... and do keep within the periphery of your site subject.
Debs
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Charlie
Joined:
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Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 10:32 am
Post subject:
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| Larry wrote: | | ...yes I am interested in bleeding PageRank, as much bleeding PageRank as possible! |
Nice one, Larry!
(I'm sure the Brits appreciated it, if no-one else.)
| Debs wrote: | | Your time to prevent bleeding of your pagerank would be better spent on doing javascript or span tags with your affiliate referrals than with link exchanges. |
| Rupert wrote: | | As for bleeding pagerank I wouldn't worry too much. |
Fair points. It's much more of an issue with content pages than the "links" page, anyway.
| Rupert wrote: | | Only exchange links with sites that have a page rank! |
Isn't there a bit of a problem here.
Let's not forget that your share of PageRank gained depends not only on the PageRank of the linking site, but also how many other outgoing static links it has, too. If everyone is reluctant to swap with a lower PageRanked page in the first place, and each time a new link is added, the share of bled PageRank is reduced for everyone, the value of a link has to be reappraised constantly. It ends up being a theoretical exercise in realtime.
With the exception of affiliate links on highly optimised pages (as Debs mentioned), maybe it's best to just forget about PageRank in the context of link swaps. Sorry if I bogged things down a bit.
All the best,
Charlie.
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Debs
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Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:24 pm
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Just because a site or page has no rank at the time you request a link, doesn't mean it will stay that way. Incoming links are incoming links, go for it.
One condition however ... view source on the site to be sure they aren't spamming the SE's. What I watch for:
1. I highlight the entire viewed page to see if there is any hidden text (same font color as the background for instance)
2. I look for keyword phrases in comment tags in the html
3. Gray Google PR could mean the site was banned (could also mean Google just hasn't picked up the site yet) I try for sites that at least show the 0/10 white bar which means they are listed and not banned.
Only takes a few seconds, and IMHO, worth it.
Debs
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ProfitsCC
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Larry Chamberlain
Joined:
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1184
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London, England
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Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 10:58 pm
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Hi Folks,
Charlie
| Quote: | Nice one, Larry! Laughing
(I'm sure the Brits appreciated it, if no-one else.) |
Sorry I couldn't resist that one! But I should keep my childish humor in check, and remember that this is an international board.
Rupert
| Quote: | I have just been reading SiteSell's tips on getting incoming links and one tip they suggested actually works quite well.
You can search for your site's keywords and add "add url" or "submit site" to the end of your search. Here are some examples
"Specific Keyword" +"add url"
"Specific Keyword" +"suggest a site"
"Specific Keyword" +"submit site"
"Specific Keyword" +"reciprocal links" |
Yes, works very well.
Debs
| Quote: | 1. I highlight the entire viewed page to see if there is any hidden text (same font color as the background for instance)
2. I look for keyword phrases in comment tags in the html
3. Gray Google PR could mean the site was banned (could also mean Google just hasn't picked up the site yet) I try for sites that at least show the 0/10 white bar which means they are listed and not banned. |
Never thought of doing No1, that's a good idea.
No2 is a new one on me. I take this means putting a load of keywords in comment tags in the source code, and that this would get you banned if caught?
Armando
Thanks, yes it's a great article I've bookmarked it.
All the best,
Larry Chamberlain
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Debs
Joined:
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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2003 12:19 am
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| Quote: | | No2 is a new one on me. I take this means putting a load of keywords in comment tags in the source code, and that this would get you banned if caught? |
Yes, comment tags such as that are considered spam by some engines.
Debs
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Niall Kennedy
Joined:
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76
Location:
Glasgow, UK
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Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 10:40 am
Post subject: Link request follow-ups
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| Quote: | Larry said:
yes I have thought about following up, but been shy of doing it in case some folks thought it too pushy. After all these link request could conceivably be considered UCE, they are Unsolicited, they are Commercial, and they are Email. But as you say that you get a good response, perhaps I'm being over cautious, I'll give it a try. |
A couple of days ago I was following up some link requests, a month after my initial contact. I sent my polite reminder that I had added a link to my page and would appreciate a reciprocal.
Within 24 hours I had received five messages apologising for forgetting to link to me and promising to do just that.
I'm happy with the return on my time.
Niall |
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Larry Chamberlain
Joined:
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1184
Location:
London, England
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Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 10:56 am
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| Quote: |
A couple of days ago I was following up some link requests, a month after my initial contact. I sent my polite reminder that I had added a link to my page and would appreciate a reciprocal.
Within 24 hours I had received five messages apologising for forgetting to link to me and promising to do just that.
I'm happy with the return on my time.
Niall
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Hi Niall,
Well done, that's very encouraging, I'll see if I can get similar results.
All the best,
Larry Chamberlain.
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