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Phil Tanny
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Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2003 11:50 pm
Post subject: Globalization and Affiliate Marketing
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I was reading a story the other day about how a large bank had it's $60/hour American programmers training Indian programmers to take over these same jobs at a much lower hourly rate. Shipping jobs out of the US and Europe to lower priced labor is of course nothing new.
I've begun to wonder how globalization will affect the future of affiliate marketing. Right now it seems this field is dominated by "western" (North America, Europe, Australia) Internet users. How long will that last? Will affiliate marketing still be profitable for western entrepreneurs as growing numbers of 3rd world Net users begin to compete in this arena?
The Indian programmers were able to out compete their American counterparts because 1) they are just as talented and 2) their home market is much more affordable, thus they can acheive the same standard of living with less income than US based programmers.
The Internet has effectively erased much of the geographical advantage the US programmers had in their physical proximity to the main market for programming services.
Don't these same market forces apply to affiliate marketing? If affiliate marketers in Indonesia, China, Iraq and the Philipines etc can create the same site I can create, and they are able to do it on much less income, doesn't that eventually drive those of us in the more expensive economies out of the affiliate marketing game?
See the irony here? We in the rich west invented the Net to create a global community and now we may have find purely local type niches to work in order to survive in this worldwide market.
Should a young person in a western country build their career plans on affiliate marketing? Can they compete in this emerging new reality? If yes, how?
Look forward to your thoughts!
Phil |
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Timothy Warnock
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Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 7:18 am
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Hi Phil,
You always seem to bring up interesting, and thought provoking posts - this is not the first time that I have found myself responding directly to you.
I grew up on the fringes of Silicon Valley, in the nearby foothills, and literally watched it transform from fields and orchards into what it is today (well, I moved away about 11 years ago).
I remember vividly watching an Indian community develop (and enjoyed the influx of new Indian restaurants)  This was due, in great part, to the influx of talented programmers, and great innovative minds - India has produced such minds since the beginning of history. And generally speaking, language is not a barrier for these individuals, and innovative thinkers, because of the strong English influence of the past.
| Quote: | I've begun to wonder how globalization will affect the future of affiliate marketing. Right now it seems this field is dominated by "western" (North America, Europe, Australia) Internet users. How long will that last? Will affiliate marketing still be profitable for western entrepreneurs as growing numbers of 3rd world Net users begin to compete in this arena?
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One has to consider the role of language in all this. I honestly don't think that there is enough really fluent 3rd world English speakers to make that much of a difference - it is one thing to understand English, it is a completely different thing to write it well...
But it doesn't mean that they will be left out as potential affiliates, there is an ever increasing world market that has been literally growing exponentially in other non-English countries - see my World Statistics pages - where these affiliates can promote in their own country/language.
There are several things to keep in mind here:
1) Affiliate marketing is a very American concept -- even if language was not a barrier, for most cultures, this approach to selling is very foreign and difficult to swallow. It is far too easy for a merchant to rip off a reseller. The American thinks, "why would he/she rip me off? If I constantly bring them clients, he/she will probably pay me more!" -- An Italian would think, "If the merchant can rip me off, he/she will, therefore I have to be super protected and watch my backside at every turn, as someone IS trying to burn me!"
This second attitude is certainly not limited to Italians, it is prevailent in most non-English cultures, except perhaps the germanic, scandanavian cultures.
2) English as a language will hold less than 30% of all internet use for 2004, but over 56% of all e-commerce (see my statistics pages link above).
3) A web page presented in the native language of the visitor (written by a native speaker) is up to 4 times more likely to sell (proven statistic). Non-native English speakers do not write English well in general, they would do better to focus on opportunities within their own language (this is a generalization, and not a rule!!)
4) English users have an enormous headstart as to how online selling works, and have created an intensely competitive market (for English), add language barriers and cultural differences into the equation, and I just don't see new 3rd world affiliates as a major competitive force against those already playing the game (for English). The world market is wide open though, with relatively little competition. The savvy non-native English affiliates, for the most part, are already online competing, and they would do well to examine possibilities in their respective languages.
| Quote: | | Should a young person in a western country build their career plans on affiliate marketing? Can they compete in this emerging new reality? If yes, how? |
I honestly don't think that competition from non-English forces should be the worry here. The reality of the matter is that affiliate marketing has sectors that are fiercely competitive from within the existing Western structure, these high competition and over saturated fields should be avoided (unless you are amongst the best).
There is plenty of room within the niches, and for those of us that are bilingual, do not forget to consider international markets. Many are wide open, with relatively little competition.
I am going to turn the tables here and say that the other countries need to worry about Western marketers coming into their languages! These are areas with great potential, and if anything, affiliate marketing is getting tougher and tougher in Western fields from within, not because of an influx of non-native marketers.
If you look how much Japan, Germany, France, Korea, Italy and others are spending online, you begin to see a whole different picture emerging - there is an enormous potential growing, that is still relatively untapped amongst Western marketers, i.e., International Marketing and translation.
I see opportunity here, not incoming competition.
Most Sincerely,
Tim
_________________
Timothy Warnock
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Phil Tanny
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Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 1:05 pm
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Hi Timonthy,
Thanks for your kind words. Wow, talk about thoughtful posts, you just wrote the first chapter of a book on the subject.  Great reading, thanks. You bring up many good points.
For the sake of friendly debate I'll bring us back to the Indian programmers mentioned in the article I read. Let's observe how they overcame all the obstacles you referred to, and won the jobs. The loss of 1st world jobs to cheaper 3rd world labor isn't theoretical, it has occurred in industry after industry over a period of decades now. What makes our industry immune from this tide of history?
Although I am hardly an authority on the subject, my novice impression is that 3rd world peoples are far more familiar with our language and culture than we westerners are with theirs. This seems to be especially true of we in the US. It's commonplace to see a 10 year old Iraqi or Palestinian kid, wearing a Steely Dan T-shirt, being interviewed in English on CNN. How many 10 year old American kids can give an interview in Arabic? How many 10 year old US kids even know what the word Arabic means?
So while there is opportunity and obstacles in both directions, it seems 3rd worlders are in a better position to exploit their opportunity and overcome their obstacles. How many American affiliates are in a position to compete in the South Korean market against native Koreans?
Remember, third world affiliates don't need to be as good as their western counterparts. We aren't competing with them on a level playing field. If a third worlder can work for 25% of typical US wages they only need to be half as good as us in order compete successfully.
I'm not arguing 3rd worlders will completely take over the industry, only that it seems that, over time, their growing precence in this market may do what it has done in many other markets, push wages down. For somebody my age (51) this may not be an urgent concern. But if I'm 21 perhaps I should be considering how to position my evolving online business in more local focused niches that are not so easily invaded.
Or maybe young folks in the West might be reconsidering careers in an arenas that are not so wide open to foreign competition. As example, my wife is a massage therapist. Globalization is an irrelevant threat to her because nobody can profitably fly cheap labor in from the 3rd world to compete with her. Until Apple comes out with iMassage, which allows you to give/receive a massage over the Net, she has a truly local business.
However it all turns out, these are interesting times. I'm sure we will all agree on that. Thanks again for your thoughts!
Phil |
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Timothy Warnock
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Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 7:25 pm
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Hi Phil,
Thank you for the kind words in return.
| Quote: | What makes our industry immune from this tide of history?
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Good question, and not easy to answer, and I don't really know if it is immune, but some obstacles come to mind that might make it difficult for 3rd world (less expensive) marketers to boot the rest of us out, as it has happened in other fields and industries.
One thought that comes to the front is, in order for this to happen (for affiliate marketing) these 3rd world marketers will have to be both plentiful, like hordes, and successful - amongst the best of the best.
Here we find ourselves in a situation of the fox that chases his tail.
Let me explain...
Merchants are interested in results, right? So they pay good money to attract as many affiliates as possible, and hopefully amongst these affiliates, they manage to attract some super affiliates (those that really put the show on the road).
Now, do you think that merchants will turn towards 3rd world countries to try to find affiliates at a lesser cost without proof that it will work? No, I don't think so, for several reasons:
1) The internet is not locally limited (at least for English) - so the offer is worldwide - and lesser prices just don't interest affiliates. Why should a 3rd world affiliate accept to be an affiliate for company A's wimpy prices, when he can choose company B at good prices? 3rd world folks may have cheaper living expenses, but they aren't stupid. 
2) The 3rd world affiliate has to have CR% that work for him as well, he may not need to earn as much, but he still needs to break even and not lose money in his promotions. Already, in the current state of affairs, most affiliates lose money with their promotions, very few actually make it work as a positive income, and even fewer can actually live off their affiliate income. Affiliates work with razor thin profit margins at times, so dropping commissions would kill the affiliate industry IMHO.
3) Even if a merchant could find top selling 3rd world affiliates, why in the world would these affiliates accept to be treated less than their western brothers and sisters, when in fact, they have proven their ability to sell?? They should be treated better! And again, someone who knows how to sell online as an affiliate and actually make money would be stupid to accept a lesser offer.
This is the beauty of the internet, it levels out the playing field, and gives opportunity to those that produce results, irregardless of age, race, financial status, etc.
If 3rd world affiliates take over, it will be because they sell better , not beause they are cheaper - I just don't see it happening (in mass), at least not within affiliate marketing. This doesn't even take into consideration my previous language and cultural arguments. Some 3rd world affiliates will sell well, just as some western affiliates sell well.
Hadn't actually thought about all this before, but your post was just too interesting... darn it Phil, I should be building more web pages right now, but these kinds of threads are just too tempting. 
And even though I should be building, I look forward to your next thought provoking posts.
All the best,
Tim
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Timothy Warnock
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Larry Chamberlain
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Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 9:12 pm
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Hi Phil and Tim,
Blimey, you two blokes know how to write posts don't you! A very interesting discussion.
Yes plenty of us in the west have lost our jobs through globalisation and cheaper labor in the third world. But then, not so long ago people were loosing jobs to automation. This set me thinking.
What if someone made a program that did the work of affiliates? The whole shooting match, keyword research, writing content ect. ect. Don't laugh too loud it's not beyond the bounds of possibility is it? 
But...
...I don't think it's going to happen, not this week anyway. Like I don't think we are in danger from the third world for the reasons that you gave Tim.
All the best,
Larry Chamberlain.
_________________
Why Do Most Affiliates Make Less Than $500 Per Month?
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hartworks
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Colorado
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Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 9:28 pm
Post subject: Not just globalization...
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Phil, you asked:
>>Should a young person in a western country build their career plans on affiliate marketing? Can they compete in this emerging new reality? If yes, how?
and the globalization aspects have been very well covered.
I want to look at your question from a different angle. The internet is changing all the time, and much of what is being discussed on these boards wasn't here in its present form even a year ago. These changes are not going to stop... I've been online for decades now, and things keep evolving. There are so many opportunities right now that sometimes I wonder if we will look back at this time as a golden era, but I kind of doubt it... think it will look prehistoric.
"Building career plans" means creating a vision that will change. Seems to me that the flexibility of strategy and the ability to learn new things that affiliate marketing will teach you will transfer well to other things.
I've been a librarian, llama rancher, hypnotherapist, and self-publisher, to name only the main activities. All of them taught me things that I use now as a webmaster and affiliate.
Just one partly-gray-hair'ed point of view.
_________________
Rosana
www.training-dogs.com, www.hartworks.com, www.cordwainer-smith.com, www.llamas-information.com, www.yes-great.com |
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AllanGardyne
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Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2003 12:02 am
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Fascinating discussion. Thanks for starting it, Phil.
| Timothy Warnock wrote: | | Already, in the current state of affairs, most affiliates lose money with their promotions, very few actually make it work as a positive income, and even fewer can actually live off their affiliate income. |
Areas in which I reckon we'll see more world-wide competition in the affiliate industry are search engine optimization and guerrilla marketing - in fact any technique that involves spending time, not money. That includes things like posts to forums and email discussion lists, writing newsletters and autoresponder mini-courses, adding dozens of new pages to web sites...
An affiliate living in the Philippines, Romania or even New Zealand (where a U.S. dollar is worth two NZ dollars) has a much stronger incentive to spend time doing such things because of the value of the American dollar.
Now that ADSense has appeared, no doubt we'll also see many wonderful - and not so wonderful - content sites created in third world countries with cheap labor, all adding to the competition on search engines.
One way to combat this competition is to be different. Be memorable. Be a little outspoken. Reveal a bit of your character and personality. Let people get to know you and trust you. If you do that, you'll stand out among all the dull as dishwater, impersonal sites out there.
Do that, and you'll always succeed against whatever the competition can throw at you. Works for me.
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Allan Gardyne
AssociatePrograms.com - You're here. Explore it! |
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Phil Tanny
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Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2003 2:53 am
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Welcome to the thread Allan! Hope you're feeling well!
As a disclaimer, let me make clear I have _no idea_ what will happen in regards to globalization and affiliate marketing, I'm taking a certain point of view just to see what I can learn from the discussion that results. So far, a lot!
| Quote: |
One thought that comes to the front is, in order for this to happen (for affiliate marketing) these 3rd world marketers will have to be both plentiful, like hordes, and successful - amongst the best of the best.
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Well, they are potentially plentiful, like hordes. America makes up about 5% of the world's population. Throw in Europe, Canada, and the Aussies and maybe we're up to 10-15% or something like that. Everybody else equals 80% or so? That's a lot of publishers yet to enter the game.
You know how the biggest schools always have the best football teams because they have the biggest talent pool to draw from? The third world has a very large group of people to drawn on. A much lower percent of this group has to be talented to equal or surpass the number of Westerners who have mastered affiliate marketing.
I'm just pondering basic supply/demand theory as best I can and wondering how adding a possibly large emerging group of new publishers (with lower expectations) to the current glut of publishers will help existing publishers.
Well, it could be a boom for those who sell tools to publishers, that's a happy thought. Maybe I should open yet another Internet marketing site after all?
| Quote: |
Why should a 3rd world affiliate accept to be an affiliate for company A's wimpy prices, when he can choose company B at good prices? 3rd world folks may have cheaper living expenses, but they aren't stupid.
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Because both company A and company B's payouts will be lower relative to now when the supply of publishers is greater? Company B's payout will still be higher than Company A, but both payouts will be lower than they are now? Or so the theory goes...
Indian programmers work in a global Net market too, and many of them will work cheaper because they can, that's their edge, and they exploit that edge to gain market share. Exploiting their edge, and taking over the jobs is of course smart business.
| Quote: |
Affiliates work with razor thin profit margins at times, so dropping commissions would kill the affiliate industry IMHO.
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Lowering payouts might kill the industry for us, but not necessarily for those whose expectations and living costs are lower. What margins? Allan and SBI is teaching the entire planet how to get free traffic from SEO. Thanks alot Allan!
| Quote: |
3) Even if a merchant could find top selling 3rd world affiliates, why in the world would these affiliates accept to be treated less than their western brothers and sisters, when in fact, they have proven their ability to sell??
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By this theory I am pushing just to get a reaction, they wouldn't be paid less than us in the future. We would _all_ make less than now. They would be in a better position to absorb the blow than us because their living costs are lower. As more Westerners are pushed out, that creates openings for more 3rd worlders.
Of course, eventually the 3rd worlders get rich too, and then they have higher livings costs as well. At least, that's how globalization is supposed to work...
By the way, the third world is almost defined by it's willingness to let 5% of the world's population (ie. Americans) consume about 50% of the world's resources. Not a new concept.
| Quote: |
darn it Phil, I should be building more web pages right now, but these kinds of threads are just too tempting.
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No kidding brother, I'm with you all the way there. I finally had to unsub from I-Sales digest because I was enjoying it too much! And here I am, back at it.
Same to you Tim, I don't really disagree with you, I have no idea what will happen. Just dropping bait in the water, fishing for brains, and happy to have found them.
Phil |
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AllanGardyne
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Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:03 am
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Although we'll probably see a huge increase in the number of affiliates who are prepared to work for less money, I don't think the news will be all bad for affiliates.
As more and more affiliate programs are launched, we're already seeing fiercer competition for affiliates. If affiliate merchants want to survive in a crowded space, they're being forced to look after their affiliates better.
Newsletter publishers and prominent web site owners are already being swamped with offers from affiliate merchants. Merchants have to do something special to win over those potential super affiliates.
To compete, several innovative ebook publishers have recently been offering to pay higher and higher commissions to attract the attention of newsletter publishers. One I've promoted fairly recently pays 75% commissions.
Another increasingly popular tactic is to pay residual commissions or lifetime commissions, the sort reviewed at http://www.LifetimeCommissions.com .
In short, I think the future looks very good for affiliates. Whether it looks good or scary five or ten years ahead, depends on how fast you can adapt as things change. While they'll be a lot more competition, they'll also be a lot more customers.
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Allan Gardyne
AssociatePrograms.com - You're here. Explore it! |
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Timothy Warnock
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Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:47 am
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Glad others have joined into our personal good natured debate - Hi Allan, I hope you are feeling better, and as usual, you've contributed another gold nugget of advice. BTW, you surprised me with your last newsletter, mentioning my recent post in I-Sales - soon, we will have to start a good PPC thread here - but first I have to finish this forum "boxing match" with my new friend, Phil
Ok, ding ding - Round 3
Phil, you keep surviving what I thought were knock out arguments, you're worse than Rocky when it comes to surviving what should have been knock out blows! Allan gave you a rope or two to hang on to - but you didn't know that my friends call me The Timinator... 
| Quote: | Well, they are potentially plentiful, like hordes. America makes up about 5% of the world's population. Throw in Europe, Canada, and the Aussies and maybe we're up to 10-15% or something like that. Everybody else equals 80% or so? That's a lot of publishers yet to enter the game.
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True, but... considering one of the projections for 2005 - again, take a look at my site: http://www.translate-to-success.com/e-commerce-growth-projections.html
You will notice that English holds 27.2% of ALL online language use - this is because a large percentage of English users are online, and a relatively small % of Chinese are online (though growing fast) - they will have about 20% in 2005. Now, another statistic that I have, is that there are several million Chinese speakers living in America, but 56% of these do not speak English well - this is in America! They prefer to access the net in their own language. So, what does that tell us about China? Probably that a VERY SMALL % of these online users access the net in English.
And yet another statistic regarding online spending says that even though Chinese will hold a whopping 20% of the internet language use, it will hold only 5% of the e-commerce spending.
I think we will need to worry about Chinese Spam, more than Chinese affiliates (for at least several years to come). Perhaps we need the intervention of a Chinese person in this argument to give us some feedback regarding the Chinese culture, and how Internet is perceived and used in China - and also, what kind of % of youngsters are learning English in China?... this I don't know.
They are the powerhouse to keep an eye on!
I'll give you another argument to use (aren't I generous, don't want to knock you out yet...): A trend that might signal the demise of affiliate programs as we know them, would be towards semi automated promotional packages (probably spammy) - where the merchant gives away template sites already built, a couple of translated instruction pages, and a multi-level pyramid kind of scheme to attract large numbers of participants with an idiot kind of "push this button to send out millions of promotions and be rich tomorrow!!!" kind of approach.
This would be the end of email as we know it - it is already getting close...  -- this would allow large masses of non-english participants to get involved. The only defense that we would have to block this eventual inundation of non-English source spam, would be to block email from entire countries - but this would start to cripple e-commerce as we know it.
Just look at what has happened here in the West regarding all the get rich quick schemes - there are so many sucker fish that bite this bait because it appeals to the innate human desire towards Wealth, thus Power, irregardless of all the social conditioning messages that are flying around that say - "Don't Do It! - It is Bad Behavior and Rude!" - the temptation is simply too strong. Put this kind of sucker fish bait of "Get Rich Tomorrow By Pushing This Button!" kind of publicity in the 3rd world, in mass, and Shazam!... global email paralyzation.
I see this happening far before we evolve to proper behaving affiliates that work honestly, be it SEO, or building web pages, that honestly compete with western affiliates.
I have a feeling that the internet is due for a couple of harsh revolutions before we get to that stage - and who knows what will surface after these virtual nuclear bombs go off.
One thing for sure is that Allan is right on. Being unique, letting your individual soul shine through in your work, being honest and helpful towards others (selfless not selfish), are very long rhythm keys to success in anything that we do. The dark side of marketing may win a few short battles, but the Principled side ALWAYS wins the war in the long run.
The hordes may come, but a pillar of light cannot be knocked down, and will become a reference point towards many to the correct way - this is all we can do, and success will come - perhaps not wealth, but inner success - the only thing we can take with us when it's our time to go, thus the only thing that really counts. The only thing that is permitted into Heaven that you have worked on, and developed, is a Big Heart.
I'll get off my soapbox now, sorry, didn't mean to turn into Apostle Tim, preaching the Revelation from the New Testament of Online Marketing...
I think our boxing match is done - some of these thoughts and possible forecasts, just made me sit down, The Timinator just took his hat off...
The fight and challenge that is coming our way (always has been, and always will be) is not affiliate masses, it's IGNORANCE. To fight this, we need to stand united, supporting each other as examples.
Phil, you pushed me right to our very existence with your arguments, but isn't that where any good argument will always end up?
That's all I have to say.
Always my best wishes,
Tim
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Timothy Warnock
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Phil Tanny
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Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 3:43 pm
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Whoa! I've been dominated by THE TIMINATOR! At least now
I know what hit me!
Seriously, it's always _a pleasure_ to be able to join a
conversation where it is the ideas, not the people, who are
colliding. It's an art few master, and fewer still are
interested in mastering. Wouldn't it be cool if a timer
went off every so often in these threads and each party then
reversed their position and began arguing the opposite point
of view, thus further demoting the role of ego?
Allan really put his finger on the heart of the matter we're
discussing with his wise counsel:
| Quote: | Whether it looks good or scary five or ten years
ahead, depends on how fast you can adapt as things
change. |
All and all, globalization will likely be a good thing, on
balance... once the process is completed. The real
problem perhaps is that in the process of getting there
people's confidence in their ability to understand and adapt
to an ever changing landscape is undermined. Why study
programming 18 hours a day for 5 years when who the hell
knows what the payscale for programmers will be once you've
mastered the art?
On one hand change is _great_ because of the new
opportunities it creates. Certainly the Net has brought me
miracles I never expected to see.
On the other hand, since I came online in 95 I've had three
promising careers sort of melt away underneath me as the
involved technology or market changed dramatically in a
short period of time.
I'm fascinated by what Allan is teaching us about affiliate
marketing, but I must admit in the back of mind I'm
wrestling with the notion that "by the time I master all
this stuff, it will be largely irrelevant".
The pace of change seems to be a function of the nature of
knowledge itself. The more pieces of a puzzle you have in
place, the faster you can complete the puzzle.
We like to think we are developing knowledge. The reverse
seems closer to the truth. I like to think of human
knowledge as an independant living entity that is
using natural selection to ruthlessly craft us in to a
species that thrives on uncertainty.
If we think we're the driver of this bus, not just the
passengers, then the question arises, could we slow down or
stop change and progress for awhile if we wanted to?
Or would anybody who tried that be crushed by those
who were willing to go forward?
I have no idea where this bus is going, but I can look out
the window and at least see that we're getting there ever
faster.
It's not change, or even the pace of change, but the fact
that the pace of change is always accelerating that
undermines people's sense that they have some control over
their destiny.
Ah! Perhaps that's the point, eh? Perhaps the lesson being
presented is that we aren't the drivers, so get over it,
relax, and try to enjoy the ride?
A final question, in a new direction. You know how one
of the really wise principles of affiliate marketing is
that you should focus on things you have a sincere interest
in? How else do you liberate the energy that is needed
to compete in this ever changing market?
Tim, Allan and I all seem to be interested in this kind of
stand back perspective view of things. For better or worse,
my brain seems to have come from the factory stuck on this
setting...
But all three of us feel the need to set this thread aside
and "get back to work".
For me at least, this raises the question, anybody have the
tiniest clue how to monetize these kind of communications?
(I'd like to bill by the word if at all possible!!
As Apostle Timinator hath written:
| Quote: | "Inner success is the only thing we can take with
us when it's our time to go." |
Can affiliate marketing be about something bigger than
serving the kind of relentless consumerism that is sucking
the planet dry of resources?
Phil |
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Timothy Warnock
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Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 6:54 pm
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Phil,
| Quote: | Tim, Allan and I all seem to be interested in this kind of
stand back perspective view of things. For better or worse,
my brain seems to have come from the factory stuck on this
setting...
But all three of us feel the need to set this thread aside
and "get back to work". |
Whoa, whoa, whoa... hang on a sec... you aren't going to kick me out of this discussion so easily pal.  And even though I should write up another few web pages, this is more fun, and I am my own boss, and don't plan on firing myself just yet. And I know that you want to work as well, but I am going to suck you right back in here. 
Another thing, please don't mix together my various alter egos, i.e. The Timinator and Apostle Tim... by creating The Apostle Timinator, you risk sending me into a scizophrenic spin out with a one way ticket!!
| Quote: | Ah! Perhaps that's the point, eh? Perhaps the lesson being
presented is that we aren't the drivers, so get over it,
relax, and try to enjoy the ride? |
Hooray! I can see that you are close to final illumination! Just watch small children carefully, they can teach us a lot...
| Quote: | A final question, in a new direction. You know how one
of the really wise principles of affiliate marketing is
that you should focus on things you have a sincere interest
in? How else do you liberate the energy that is needed
to compete in this ever changing market? |
Ah yes... an inspired heart is indeed a formidible competitor, and can even manage to transform competitors into allies and faithful supporters... hmmm, now that I think about it, maybe The Apostle Timinator is the best alter ego after all... Both a formidible competitor and inspiring force towards faithful support... not bad!
| Quote: | For me at least, this raises the question, anybody have the
tiniest clue how to monetize these kind of communications?
(I'd like to bill by the word if at all possible!! |
Phil, maybe we could create a new service... Nutty Soulfood Marketing Posters, with a slogan like: Posts that Guarantee to be Fascinating, Fun, Fill Up Web Space, Frazzle Moderators, and From the Heart - For Our Wallets!
I like the last part best, don't you - we could charge a fortune! I bet Allan would love our idea.
We even have two personalities now... We could say:
Presented by Phil Tanny a.k.a. Rubber Rocky (almost impossible to knock out with an argument, and even if you do, he bounces right back up!) and Timothy Warnock a.k.a. The Apostle Timinator (you won't know what hit you, nor will you know if you were illumined or just plain knocked out, or both!).
| Quote: | Can affiliate marketing be about something bigger than
serving the kind of relentless consumerism that is sucking
the planet dry of resources? |
Well, our new service would only suck dry forum owners' resources.
But seriously, we can only do our best to do our small or big role, help others to smile, gain confidence in themselves, gain education, and increase the size of our own hearts, hoping that this helps others do the same.
Then in the end, don't forget what you just said... that we are not the drivers here. And if I could add something to that, let's not let all the ugliness around us spoil our own trip and get us down. Otherwise our hearts will start to shrink - and nobody wins.
Life is a lot more fun when everyone wins.
Tim (a.k.a. The Apostle Timinator)
_________________
Timothy Warnock
Copywriter |
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Wayne Porter
Joined:
01 Aug 2003
Posts:
3
Location:
NE Ohio
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Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 8:16 pm
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Phil,
Regarding "Globalization and Affiliate Marketing".
Yes I think it will have some impact, but as someone pointed out there are critical barriers to entry i.e. language. These are barriers to entry that partnerships and collaboration can solve! I see barriers as opportunities and not obstacles.
The key, as Allan mentioned, is adaptation. Smart affiliates will adapt, learn how to collobarate and create partnerships that bring global market advantages to their business. In reality the best affiliates are always adapting and conducting their business in an environment of "flux".
Our clients are some of the savviest in the business and many of them have long had global initiatives underway. I do not feel it is something to fear but something to embrace.
A few years ago affiliate marketing was alot easier, and I am sure most veterans here will agree that the ante has raised and the competition is even more fierce. i.e. the maturation of PPCSE arbitrage. No doubt non-U.S. partnerships have contributed to that change.
I have always believed in the "global community" and look forward to a day when it is as natural as breathing air. While we get closer to making it a reality it is still a good ways off. Still there is time for smart marketers to jump into the fray and make money.
regards,
Wayne
_________________
Wayne Porter
Senior Editor, Revenews
Site: http://www.revenews.com
Blog: http://www.revenews.com/wayneporter/ |
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Harith Al-Jibury
Joined:
11 Jul 2003
Posts:
37
Location:
Denmark
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Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 9:33 pm
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Hi all
I wish to look at the globalization of affiliate marketing, from export-import and international trade perspective. After all we are talking about a product which was developed mainly in USA and then exported via the internet to other countries.
If affiliate programs vendors see a "business opportunity" in globalization and start developing "export versions" of their products to meet requirements of foreign export markets, affiliates of such foreign markets shall be more comfortable in reselling the "export version" which is customized to their local market rather than the original one (mostly in english).
To explain my thoughts, lets take eBooks as an example and a well known vendor.
There is no reason why Ken Evoy wouldn't offer a chinese version of his MYSS to chinese affiliates. Taking in account the potential of such huge market and the level of personal income in China, MYSS chinese version would be sold for only say $9 including the same % of commission offered to western affiliates. Hence chinese affiliates shall earn less number of dollars than their western brothers but under equal and same % and conditions.
This is not something new. From pharmaceutical industry, we know that the same medicine is usually offered at different prices at different markets. Insulin is a good example. The same is the case within tobacco industry.
It will be also more "natural" for a chinese affiliate to resell the chinese MYSS to his own home market where he/she has the advantage of language and culture understanding than reselling the english MYSS to western countries and hereby competing with affiliates who are more "equipped" to function in their own home markets.
Therefore, I see globalization of affiliate marketing opening new doors for affiliate vendors as well as affiliates, provided that they "can adapt fast as things change", as Allan mentioned.
All the best,
Harith
http://www.danex-exm.dk |
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Timothy Warnock
Joined:
08 Aug 2003
Posts:
205
Location:
Assisi, Italy
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Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 11:34 pm
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Quite a while back, I had the strong intuition, or rather, what I thought was a potential hot affiliate idea, to explore in the area of Global Marketing, and see what kinds of challenges one runs into to promote an affiliate product towards a target country - non-english.
I am sure this particular direction interested me because I am bilingual (I speak fluent Italian) and because I live in Italy. This also interested me because I often traveled back to California to visit my family, and I could see how outrageously fast the internet was taking over in America, while, here in Italy it was several years behind.
It was like having access to a kind of time machine, hot selling products or services would come out in America, and because of language barriers, slower internet development, and general lack of online competition here in Italy (very, very few have even a clue about selling online here) - I thought this would be a golden opportunity to gain first movers advantage here in Italy for just about anything that seemed most appropriate.
The problem was that my mentality is American, and that I hadn't fully anticipated the Italian mentality (even though I have been here for more than 11 years). The Italian mentality is very fixed into tradition, of doing things a certain way, thus, of not trusting online selling as a way of doing honest business (it is still too new). I think it will take them quite a while to accept this new medium.
It is so common to see the attitude of throwing up a web site, without any real clear goals expressed, and very often as if the web page is just another form of branding, like a billboard, or magazine ad that has no specific call to action. Many businesses have spent fortunes here in Italy to have an online presence, but without any substantial results - so it simply hasn't taken off like in America.
Where am I going with this?
Americans are much more open to new things, especially if these new things are efficient, technological time savers. Thus the Internet boom.
Americans are also fast adaptors in general, thus the online marketing boom, and its 101 radical changes, or constant flux.
NOT SO with a large part of the rest of the world - certainly not here in Italy!
It is no wonder that the next biggest online spenders are Japan and Germany (in that order) - both are cultures that share similar traits that I mentioned above for Americans.
Now, I still feel that my original intuition is valid (that there will be enormous potential in many non-english language/countries), perhaps just a bit anticipated as an intuition. It might take years for some countries to accept this new medium.
I felt it important to make these points before western marketers start diving into uncharted international online terrains.
I have established close partnerships with perhaps the top online marketers here in Italy, and we are working with 70,000 + opt-in Italian subscribers, but are finding it increasingly frustrating to monetize this list (it is based on web marketing as a theme). My partners also offer direct consultation to large businesses for their online endeavors, and we have seen that those that actually follow the advice given have incredible success, the strange problem is getting most of the other businesses to change their habits and listen. Even though they are paying through the teeth for this consultation, often these businesses do nothing! Go figure!
So, oddly enough, my partners are turning to me to help them go towards America and the English language market (I do all the English writing), because even with the tight competition, the results are simply better!
I hope this gives some perspective, and opens up this very interesting discussion to some more new thoughts and ideas.
I certainly would love to hear them.
My best wishes,
Tim
_________________
Timothy Warnock
Copywriter |
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