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GuitarZan
Joined:
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80
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Cranbrook, B.C. Canada
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Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 3:31 am
Post subject: SEO Question, (Keyword)
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Hi,
I have a problem that is probably pretty simple to answer.
Q: Say I have the keyword "Dog Food" chosen for the main page on my site. Say throughout the mainpage though, that I say the phrase "Dog Food Tips" a good number of times.
My question is this. Would the search engines pick out the words "dog food" in the phrase "dog food tips" and still optimize for the word "dog food"? The keyword "dog food" of course would appear on its own multiple times. I would just like to know if the keyword "dog food tips" on the same page, would help boost the term "dog food"
Thanks,
P.S. Of course dog food is not the topic of my site, but I have used it as an example so much, it is starting to sound like it's own little nitch site! lol 
Cody
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Harnie.com
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Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 1:37 pm
Post subject: SEO questions
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GuitarZan,
There are folks much better versed in SEO than I. Here's my answer anyway.
Your site will be optimized for both dog food and dog food tips. However, one of the things that engines look for is something called keyword density. This is the % of times that a particular keyword or phrase appears on the page. Let's say you've got 100 other words on the page, and that you mention dog food 3 more times.
Mathematically:
Number of times Dog Food is mentioned/number of keywords = 3/100 = 3% .
So if you've got more words on the page that aren't "Dog Food", your keyword density goes down, and you rank lower for than one piece of the search algorithm.
Just remember that there are a bunch of other things that engines look for... link popularity (how many sites link to you), anchor text validity (is the searched for term in those links", title and meta tagging.
Happy Optimizing!
Brian |
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Guest
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Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 3:59 pm
Post subject:
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| Quote: | | My question is this. Would the search engines pick out the words "dog food" in the phrase "dog food tips" and still optimize for the word "dog food"? The keyword "dog food" of course would appear on its own multiple times. I would just like to know if the keyword "dog food tips" on the same page, would help boost the term "dog food" |
In short...it would include both "dog food" and "dog food tips" if you've used optimization techniques properly. Keywords in the Title and Meta tag as well as in your links. <a href="/dog_food.html">dog food</a>
I would strongly optimize for several of the best keyword phrases.
http://www.wordtracker.com is best for keyword research.
##Allan- Get Well Soon!
Jeff |
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scott
Joined:
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77
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Michigan
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 2:16 pm
Post subject:
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Jeff,
I want to take your above example one step farther. Your mentioned using keywords in your links as well such as
<a href="/dog_food.html">dog food</a>. But what if I were to have my dog food page in a dog food folder so my tag would look like:
<a href="/dog food/dog_food.html">dog food</a>
Would I be pentalized for being repetative?
Thanks
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scott
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 2:22 pm
Post subject: Image files
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Sorry one more follow up question,
Does adding keywords to your image files help? If Cody was making a dog food page and wanted to add a picture of dog food. Would naming his image dogfood.gif or dog-food.jpg (or some other variation) help?
thanks!
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GuitarZan
Joined:
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Cranbrook, B.C. Canada
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 1:11 am
Post subject:
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Hey Scott!
I can't answer your first question, but I think I can answer your second. Yes as a general rule of thumb, name your images that will appear on a page after the keyword/phrase you are going for on that page.
Eg keyword "dog food" for a certain page, name of images on that page should be dogfood.gif . Also, make the alt-tag of the image have the keyword in it too, I heard from many different people that this may help.
Lastly, try and name your pages after its corresponding keyword. This too may help.
Hope that helps,
Cody
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scott
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 1:24 am
Post subject:
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Thanks Cody,
Yes you did help!!!
Scott
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Debs
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4296
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NY
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 2:36 am
Post subject:
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| scott wrote: | Jeff,
I want to take your above example one step farther. Your mentioned using keywords in your links as well such as
<a href="/dog_food.html">dog food</a>. But what if I were to have my dog food page in a dog food folder so my tag would look like:
<a href="/dog food/dog_food.html">dog food</a>
Would I be pentalized for being repetative?
Thanks |
your subfolders should be using keywords, as should your pages, images and link text, H1 and H2 tags. So long as the density is within the proper range (I use anywhere from 5% to a max of 15-20%) You should look for variety in your keywords as well, changing variations of the same phrase ... ie dog food .... food for dogs ... dog feeding ... feeding dogs to get optimum exposure for your keywords.
Hope this helps.
Debs
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scott
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 2:49 am
Post subject:
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WOW Debs!!
Your on fire answering all my questions!!
So the way I see it. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Regarding organizing your site: each page should contain a variation of the keyword in the file name.
Consider putting each webpage into folder named after keywords. Also any graphics should be in the folder and also named after the keyword.
Don't forget the alt tags!
Links should also be named after the keyword as well
Plus the title, meta tags
Oh and of course the content!!
Does that about sum it up???
WHEW!!!!!
Thanks Debs
Scott
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Debs
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 2:58 am
Post subject:
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| scott wrote: | WOW Debs!!
Your on fire answering all my questions!!
So the way I see it. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Regarding organizing your site: each page should contain a variation of the keyword in the file name.
Consider putting each webpage into folder named after keywords. Also any graphics should be in the folder and also named after the keyword.
Don't forget the alt tags!
Links should also be named after the keyword as well
Plus the title, meta tags
Oh and of course the content!!
Does that about sum it up???
WHEW!!!!!
Thanks Debs
Scott |
That about sums it up. Glad I could help you Scott.
Good Luck!
Debs
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Jon Peibst
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 4:00 am
Post subject:
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Wow Scott!
I've never seen anyone ask so many SEO questions in such a short amount of time! I don't really want to go against Debs good advice, but there are a couple of things that you may find helpful. 
| Quote: | | Regarding organizing your site: each page should contain a variation of the keyword in the file name. |
I wouldn't recommend doing this. Deb is absolutely correct, but considering that you're new to all this, you'll probably learn faster if you concentrate on 1 search phrase per page.
You can always add more keywords and keyword variations once you have achieved your desired rankings and know how to effectively optimize your web site.
| Quote: | | Consider putting each webpage into folder named after keywords. Also any graphics should be in the folder and also named after the keyword. Don't forget the alt tags! |
Unless you have a huge site with 100's of pages and graphics that need to be carefully organized, then don't use sub directories.
Always use: http://www.example.com/blue-example.html
Instead of: http://www.example.com/colorful-example/blue-example.html
Naming image files and alt tags with your keywords in them doesn't really have hold much SEO weight, but it's still good practice and good advice.
All the best,
Jon Peibst |
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Debs
Joined:
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 4:11 am
Post subject:
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| Jon Peibst wrote: |
| Quote: | | Regarding organizing your site: each page should contain a variation of the keyword in the file name. |
I wouldn't recommend doing this. Deb is absolutely correct, but considering that you're new to all this, you'll probably learn faster if you concentrate on 1 search phrase per page. |
Actually I agree with one keyword phrase per page, what I suggested was using variations to add quality content (what people and search engines look for) that then lead to the actual income producing page.
I will disagree on the page name though, for two reasons ... SEO is one, but primarily because it is much easier to know what your page is about if you tie your keyword phrase into the page name and the content on that page. You have to name the page something, might as well be useful while doing it.
| Quote: | | You can always add more keywords and keyword variations once you have achieved your desired rankings and know how to effectively optimize your web site. |
Again, I have to agree, one page at a time ... start with content, build to income. Unfortunately though, until you get in the SE's, you won't know how well you did, so you might as well keep on building.
| Quote: | Consider putting each webpage into folder named after keywords. Also any graphics should be in the folder and also named after the keyword. Don't forget the alt tags!
Unless you have a huge site with 100's of pages and graphics that need to be carefully organized, then don't use sub directories. |
Again, I have to agree here too. SE's like pages in the root directory more than subfolders ... they feel they are more important for some reason *Shrugs*
Jon, you made some excellent points here that I had forgotten to touch upon. Nice job
Debs
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Jon Peibst
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 5:29 am
Post subject:
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| Quote: | | Jon, you made some excellent points here that I had forgotten to touch upon. Nice job |
I was just elaborating on your all ready exellent points Debs! 
Jon |
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Lynn Terry
Joined:
16 Aug 2003
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153
Location:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 7:05 am
Post subject:
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Great thread!
I wanted to add in that you should definitely go with 'dog-food' as a file name, versus 'dogfood' or 'dog_food'. Using the hyphen allows Google to read the file name as "dog food". The underscore is not read as a space
From what I understand, when you create a filename such as "greatdogfood.htm", SE's read the first word they can make out, in this case "great" (can anyone confirm this for me?).
If you want to put directory names and file names to the test... take the same content and save it with a new file name (ex: dogfood.html and dog-food.html) - take it a step further and also save it within a directory (ex: pet-care/dog-food.html). Paste the Google AdSense code into all three of these pages and take note of which ads display on which page. Very interesting results! Since AdSense places ads that are based on your content and Google's method of keyword analysis, this is a good way to tell if you are on track
(note: be sure to delete those extra files immediately after testing so that you dont get penalized by the SE's!)
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scott
Joined:
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77
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 12:01 pm
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WOW,
Those are some great answers to my question, thank you all very much!!
John, my site has been built and now I'm focusing on the SE. I guess I built it a little backwards but oh well!!
I figure may as well try to get it as close to right as possible on my first shot!! Thank you for your help!!
Thank you again everyone!
Scott
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