At one point, I wrote to Ken directly, after my first email was not answered again, and he responded in person that same day.
So did I the first time. That's a while ago now.
Tim wrote:
BTW, Ken wasn't responding to me because I am a Super Affiliate, quite the contrary, I am risking being booted out of their program for lack of results. Granted, I haven't yet tried to sell their products, but I would honestly be sad if I do get the boot.
This is a brave (and somewhat controversial) move, if you ask me, and it will be interesting to see how things pan out. I can see the logic behind it in some ways, but surely when the affiliates are also potential customers, there is a downside, too. Ironically, you could argue that the less effective an affiliate, the more they need to become a customer!
On the positive side, I understand that as long as you send some new traffic their way, you shouldn't be booted out. Time will tell.
Tim wrote:
I had a long talk on the phone with Bob (VP at SiteSell), and I think they do a truly fine job of walking that ever so thin tightrope of maintaining a profitable business (ego-centric), combined with a sincere desire to help others succeed (altruistic selflessness).
Blimey, Tim, you must have good connections! You couldn't let the rest of us have the number, could you?
Quote:
If ever you have the opportunity to run a business one day, you will understand how very hard a walk this is! My hat is off to them.
I take it you mean a real business?
All the best,
Charlie. _________________ "Before I speak, I have something important to say."
- Groucho Marx
Joined: 08 Aug 2003 Posts: 205 Location: Assisi, Italy
Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2003 9:17 pm Post subject:
Charlie wrote:
Nice post, Tim...
Thanks
Charlie wrote:
I take it you mean a real business?
Are you being sarcastic Charlie?
Offline and online, the bigger the business (with employees, customer support, legal issues, wages to pay, not to mention *name and fame*), the skinnier and longer that tightrope seems to get. And I'll tell you what, most people jump off (or fall), preferring a nice fat lawn to walk on.
This is why I like SiteSell, they seem to keep on walking that tightrope, and I have not seen any indications that they are jumping off (don't think they'll fall).
I am working on putting together an affiliate program, and I tell you, what SiteSell has put together is no small task. They have my respect, just for the shear amount of energy behind it all.
I am working on putting together an affiliate program
How about starting a new thread to get some feedback on your ideas? I for one have strong views on what I like to see in an affiliate program (in case you had any doubts), and I bet others do, too.
Never hurts to here a few ideas.
Cheers,
Charlie. _________________ "Before I speak, I have something important to say."
- Groucho Marx
Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 5796 Location: by the beach, Australia
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 6:10 am Post subject: Re: Long Time reader disappointed
galt wrote:
I have to wonder, have you actually read the affiliate agreement?
Yes, but not since the affiliate program was launched back in 1999.
Before then, and since then, I've seen a large number of affiliate program agreements that say, in effect, "We can do whatever we like whenever we like." Compared with them, Ken's agreement is a breath of fresh air.
Anyway, I tend to judge people more by their actions than their words.
Take a look at what Ken actually DOES...
He's sold more than 100,000 ebooks and 10,000 copies of Site Build It! That's a LOT of commissions paid out to affiliates. He's also been brilliantly successful in other fields.
Ken goes to extraordinary lengths to help his affiliates succeed. The Affiliate Masters email course, for example, is like a free 100-page book.
Site Build It! comes with a 600-page book and there's a shorter version for people in a hurry.
He also goes to extraordinary lengths to make sure that affiliates' sales are tracked.
And then there are his ever-helpful newsletters.
I can't think of any affiliate manager who tries harder to help his affiliates - and his customers - succeed.
Quote:
My whole point is that I am disappointed in the quality of your recommendation. While this program may be very profitable for the top tier team-builders, it seems less profitable for websites actually generating customers.
I can't speak for other affiliates, but as Charlie has pointed out, most of my earnings from SiteSell's affiliate program come from direct sales, not second-tier sales. I love the products - they're fantastic value for money - and I concentrate on producing my own sales, rather than relying on other people's efforts. For me, that has produced thousands of dollars in commissions, month after month for years.
Ken has a truly superb affiliate program. If you find a better one, please let me know.
The only thing I have to contribute is my concern as a new player in the affiliate game. I have recently developed a new website, primarily themed around Real Estate, but also reaching out to my visitors who may either have or want to have an RE website, then expanding that reach to those who have or want to have some kind of e-commerce presence. I have been test-driving a bunch of different affiliations, and one of the primary ones is or was going to be Site Sell. I have begun weaving site sell into my adverts, and was happy doing so.
My concern is that I have just been made aware in this thread that Site Sell will be dumping its low producers. I just launched my site and hardly even get traffic yet. But I am building my content with links to site sell, among others. Will I be unceremoniously junked by Site Sell some time in the near future, before I have a chance to produce results?
The notion makes me feel I need to rethink my strategy, not because I doubt the quality or effectiveness of Site Sell products, but because I may end up having to redo who knows how much content because I was no longer wanted as a Site Sell affiliate.
Comments welcome.
Oh, and if you have a minute maybe you could visit my site, even post something at my new and lonely forum. Those of you who have had a brand new site know how it is to be unknown and unvisted.
Allen - I believe I had heard you have been ill? I hope all is well.
Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 5796 Location: by the beach, Australia
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:53 am Post subject:
neodemes wrote:
My concern is that I have just been made aware in this thread that Site Sell will be dumping its low producers. I just launched my site and hardly even get traffic yet. But I am building my content with links to site sell, among others. Will I be unceremoniously junked by Site Sell some time in the near future, before I have a chance to produce results?
Technically, that's possible, but in reality not likely in your case, I believe.
Clause 9.02 of the affiliate agreement says:
"This Agreement shall automatically terminate if the Affiliate ceases to actively market the Product for a period of 90 days. SiteSell shall have the right but not the obligation to terminate this Agreement with an Affiliate whose First-Purchase Sales Commission in a calendar year was in the bottom 20 percent of the First-Purchase Sales Commission of all Affiliates in the calendar year in question, by giving the Affiliate 90 days notice of termination. In such cases the Sales Commission owing, representing the sums earned shall be paid even after termination of this Agreement."
I've been dealing with Ken since he launched this program in 1999. He works hard to do what's fair for all affiliates. I've never heard of an affiliate being dumped for not actively promotely SiteSell for 90 days.
Could you be dumped for being in the bottom 20% in a calendar year? Sounds scary, but I don't think there's any need at all to worry. Remember, the vast majority of affiliates in any affiliate program don't get as far as pasting a link into a page. My calculated GUESS is that Ken's bottom 20% don't make any sales at all. Make one sale, and that should be enough to keep you in the top 80%.
I think considering all the fantastic free information you get from Ken when you join his program, making a one sale for him a year isn't much to ask for in return.
Quote:
I believe I had heard you have been ill? I hope all is well.
Just a bone marrow transplant.
I'm getting better now.
Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 5796 Location: by the beach, Australia
Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:19 am Post subject:
neodemes wrote:
...some feedback with a critical eye to my site would be greatly appreciated.
I had a quick look - just as far as the main page. I think you need to do a bit of thinking about the purpose of your site.
Tighter focus would be very useful. The easiest way to be successful is to focus on one very small niche and aim to be the best you possibly can be in that niche.
I think you're confusing both your visitors and search engines by not narrowing your focus. You say the site is a "real estate portal" but the main page has all sorts of words on it that have nothing to do with real estate, such as "make your site sell", "web hosting", and "ranking software".
Similarly with all the button ads and banner ads, most of which have nothing to do with real estate.
Also, if you offer your visitors too many choices, they're likely to become confused and choose none of them.
If you gave them a choice of say, three or five links which took them to articles you've written that were powerful endorsements describing how a product had helped you, you'd be likely to achieve more sales. Also, each of those article could be keyword-rich, and have a good chance of being found in search engines.
If you've read Ken's free Affiliate Masters Course, I strongly recommend you print it out, find a quiet spot and re-read it, especially the parts that talk about concentrating on one niche. You can download the whole course free here:
Also, while I'm being tough on you, I must say I think the domain name is a huge mistake. It looks as though you said to yourself, "What name would 99% of my visitors find utterly impossible to remember?"
What you should have asked was: "What name would 99% of my visitors find utterly impossible to FORGET?"
Thank you VERY much for taking the time to look at the page and post your thoughts. And, thanks in advance if you read all of this reply!
Quote:
I had a quick look - just as far as the main page. I think you need to find do a bit of thinking about the purpose of your site.
I agree. So much so that I distilled the infomation of our focus into a new entry page and uploaded just before finding your reply. If you care to take a peak it is now the default page at http://www.real-estate-investors-resource.com
I agree with the rest of what you are saying, as well, to a point and they are issues I have been struggling with during the development of the site (which is an ongoing effort).
I have been told by others that I am crediting the average web surfer with having too much intelligence, which, if true, is a sad state of affairs. I have tried to lay out the first wave of links a visitor encounters to all the inner content that is needed for the interested party to learn about Neodemesne. The name, btw, I did give a lot of thought to as well, and as I have posted on my site in response to a similar observation...
Quote:
I agree, it is a bit unusual, a bit cumbersome, but, like the Neodemesne Concept, it is unique and distinctive, and in the long run will turn out to be memorable. The Internet is flooded with thousands of variations trying to get 'Real Estate' included in the name somewhere, and the urls are getting longer and more convoluted: ~ realestatesolutionsyoucanusetosellyourhouseinninedaysorless.com ~ an extreme example, I know.
In fact there are so many similar sounding RE websites out there, I can't remember one from another. I bookmark those that are important to me and having a name that might at first be unfamiliar may be more incentive to warrant a bookmark, eh? You may be right, it may be too forgetable, but I am believing (maybe just wishful thinking) it is unique enough to be memorable.
It may seem that I am offering rebuttals to your feedback...but not really...just trying to show there is some method to my seeming madness.
As with...
Quote:
You say the site is a "real estate portal" but the main page has all sorts of words on it that have nothing to do with real estate, such as "make your site sell", "web hosting", and "ranking software".
Similarly with all the button ads and banner ads, most of which have nothing to do with real estate.
...I would reply, I understand why you might say that...but through out my inner content, Real Estate and RE web sites and Web development and e-commerce are intertwined in advert format that unites what could be unrelated topics into a cohesive unit. There is also a common RE theme for most of the banner ads..which lead to mortgage quotes, credit reports, home valuations in one column, and web dev tools for RE web masters in another, as well as REI courses, etc. There is also a search engine results style link directory that is all RE related.
I believe I am developing a wagon wheel design with RE Portal at its hub and related spokes all around. I do take your comments to heart and will keep them in mind as I continue to modify the site.
I will wrap this up by saying the Internet is supposed to be the information highway. Those surfers that only respond to what is easily accessible to them may well be the one's creating the greatest successes in e-commerce. I am banking on being able to find a healthy enough percentage of intelligent surfers out there to create a mutually beneficial relationship with. Folks who will be inclined to take the time to actually read and understand the Neodemesne Concept in its entirety.
Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 5796 Location: by the beach, Australia
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 3:23 am Post subject:
neodemes wrote:
I am banking on being able to find a healthy enough percentage of intelligent surfers out there to create a mutually beneficial relationship with.
Fair enough, but have you figures out how those people are going to find you? I'm sorry to say it isn't very likely to be via free search engines, with your main page constructed the way it is.
For example, the Title on your newly designed main page uses the words "Make Money While You Sleep". That's eye catching and attention getting. Using that sentence in the Title clearly indicates to Google that you're trying to be found when someone types that sentence or some of those words into a search engine.
However, you haven't followed through...
If that's your intention, then you ALSO need that sentence to appear in the heading on your page, in the introduction, perhaps two or three times throughout the page and again at the end of the page. You have to show the search engine you're serious.
On the other hand, if you did some keyword research using http://www.Wordtracker.com or some of the eight keyword research tools (most of them free) I describe well down the page in my article "How to Boost Your AdSense Revenue" - http://www.AssociatePrograms.com/search/adsense.shtml - you might discover that "make money" is far too competitive. You also might find that hardly anyone searches for "make money while you sleep".
To test my theory on that, I just did a quick check at http://www.pixelfast.com/overture/ and found that only 57 people searched for "make money while you sleep" on the Overture network of sites last month. That's a fairly low number to make as your most important phrase for your web site. (That's what you've done, by using it in the Title on your main page.)
Nearly 100,000 people searched for "make money" - but whew! that's a mighty tough phrase to tackle. And what exactly are those people looking for anyway? A real estate portal? Maybe not.
With a bit of work, you might be able to identify a more profitable key phrase.
If you choose more precise phrases, you're more likely to attract people who are looking for what you're offering.
You might try to figure out who your typical potential visitor is and what's in their mind when they search for a site like yours. What words would they type into a search engine?
"Property investment"? "Investing in property"? "Real estate investment"? "Investing in real estate"? Whatever it is, that should put you on the right track for words to do some keyword research on. Then you can optimize each page of your site accordingly.
Sorry if I sound so critical, but it looks as though you've jumped straight into all this without doing some basic research first.
If you were building a real estate business OFFline, you'd do a whole lot of research and planning and studying first. If you want to succeed ONline, it's pretty similar.
Believe me, I've made lots of mistakes in the seven or eight years I've been marketing online. I'm now a great believer in researching before I leap.
A really good place to learn how search engines work is Planet Ocean - the book and the newsletter - http://www.searchenginehelp.com .
These guys are experts. They devote themselves totally to figuring out how search engines work and how to improve your rankings in them.
Can't thank you enough for the time you have invested in your answers.
Regarding the main page title: Color me numb and slap me silly. I hadn't intentionally titled it that! I had grabbed another page - which has that as title and content - to use as a template and, sure enough forgot to change the title. I'm glad you noticed...I probably would have missed it indefinetly.
Sorry if I sound so critical, but it looks as though you've jumped straight into all this without doing some basic research first.
I can see where it may appear that way. I won't deny I was anxious to start building the project, but I am also aware of keyword relevance and optimization...not that I have achieved it, but it is an ongoing tweaking and adjusting process. With so many real estate sites it will be tough to optimize on the MOST commonly searched keywords with good PR results, but I am trying to puzzle through the SOMEWHAT common keywords. I have read through Ken's 5 part series and understand the concept. I don't deny that it all makes sense, but I also recognize that the entire 5 day series leads straight to the conclusion that the best way to accomplish all his recommended procedures is to buy site build it and automate all that tedious work...not that that is a bad thing.
Hey, man...thanks again. You are awesome. Now I am off to change a certain title tag before I forget. (And it still won't be quite right, cause I also realize that having Neodemesne as the first word is not the brightest move either - until, of course I succeed in making it a household word ) _________________ ~neodemes~
Christian Soldiers REI Resources ==>Visit the Website your boss does NOT want you to know about!
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