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MrKey
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Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:49 am
Post subject: Smart pages
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Are smart pages just a short term solution that will also get you banned from search engines, or are they legit?
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Debs
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Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 3:33 am
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Smartpages are hidden from viewers, using redirect within the head section, basically telling the SE's to drop the smartpage and pick up the end site (if I understand redirects right that is --- one of my weaker areas)
These pages are considered spam by some SE's and on the hit list of soon to be spam by others. Questionable tactics that would be hard-pressed to last the long term.
Debs
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mdr02125
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Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:19 am
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shucks, Debs! I wanted to have a smartpage so it could do my homework.
lol
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OleTom
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Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:22 am
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Hi All
What is the difference between smartpages and gateway pages?
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Life is Good,OleTom
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dk
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115
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Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:52 pm
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The Truth about Smartpages!
SmartPages are a very controversial topic. I've first heard of them
in the ebook The Whole Truth from Stephen Pierce.
This was in January of this year (2003) - The ebook is still one of the best
I've read so far about affiliate marketing.
Stephen have used them longer before and now for the first revealed
his affiliate secrets in his ebook. Shortly after the release of the ebook
major discussion begun on different forum and boards. Pros and Cons.
One major arguement from the Cons was that Smartpages shortly will
be banned from Google. Now we have the end of the year and what
happenend? Smartpages are still working and better than ever!
I'm doing business for fun and to plug in money. So if a strategy works
and is reliable why don't use it?
What tools made me the most money this year?
1. Smartpages
2. Google Adwords
I jump on new ideas a soon as I realize that they could become trends.
Shortly after the realease is the time when you could make the most money out of
these new building trends, but they could last longer then you might
think. Both streams are still working and worth joining!
I also use Ranking Power and this tool is an great addition to my above income streams.
You don't like SmartPages or Ranking Power - fine that's your choice.
But don't try to cry foul whenever someone has a better search engine ranking then you as a result of SmartPages or the use of Ranking Power.
* They exist because they work.
* They exist because they make people money.
All the best
Dieter Kling
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How I tripled my Adsense CTR "overnight"
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Vrindavan
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Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:06 pm
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dk:
do you use adsense in place of aff. program too ?
there are at least 5+ smartpages tools now,
what brand have you try ?
they all works or just one or two softwares work ?
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niallr
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34
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Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:42 pm
Post subject: Short term and spam
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Hi,
Have those people using smartpages considered the fact that the recent Google Florida update was necessary to get rid of junk results like those generated by smart pages? I asked this question before and nobody was willing to answer.
Yes they obviously make money but does that make it right?
Cheers
Niall |
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Debs
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Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 2:01 pm
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SE's change their algos because of attempts by webmasters to manipulate results, and that won't change ... SE's will change their algos, and webmasters will still try to manipulate the SERPS 
I agree that questionable tactics can work, and some work longer than others. I also agree that ethically it may not be right. It is certainly a webmaster's personal decision on how far they wish to push the envelope on their site(s) and whether they want to risk loss to get better gains now.
I'm not a proponent of anything that tricks SE's or visitors or redirects them without their consent. But then that's me, I am conservative and I'll admit it. That's my personal choice. I also don't complain about these WOE (webmaster's on the edge) beating me in ranks, nor do I report them, I figure what goes around, comes around and time will take care of the junk. I do report driveby download sites, dynamic sites that go into endless loops, and sites that have so many popups they crash my computer. Those are invasive, that's what I have a real problem with.
If you had 10 sites, and wanted to try some WOE things, then I think your risk is considerably less than a person who has one site who does it. So I don't think Smartpages are a good idea for the majority of webmasters. But, hey, that's my opinion. Why risk everything on one avenue? It's that "putting all your eggs in one basket" thing again 
If you really want to try something on the edge, that doesn't trick anyone, and from what I have seen works as well as Smartpages, then consider Traffic Equalizer. If you use TE, incorporate the non-linked short paragraph text within your TE pages with the links. This gives some content to the SE's (which they love). I am not endorsing TE, I am just suggesting it as an alternative. I still think it is on the edge because it pulls SERPS from various SE's and creates SE/Directory type pages on your topic. So while it is more targeted to your site, I think over time it could be viewed like FFA (free for all) but right now it gives your site the appearance of a hub/authority site.
My 2 cents,
Debs
_________________
Learn how to turn keyphrases into quality, well-targeted articles your visitors and SE's will love with Gary Antosh's new ebook "Web Content Made Easy!"
Last edited by Debs on Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Sean Burns
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Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 2:33 pm
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| Quote: | | Yes they obviously make money but does that make it right? |
That's always the argument in favor of SmartPages - that they make money. The truth is that a normal page will rank just as well (usually better) and it will make more sales - unless everyone is wrong about pre-selling being the best way to make affiliate sales.
Cheers
Sean Burns |
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Debs
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Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:32 pm
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| Quote: | | The truth is that a normal page will rank just as well (usually better) and it will make more sales - unless everyone is wrong about pre-selling being the best way to make affiliate sales. |
I agree with Sean on this ... why would people use WOE when good content and preselling work as well? Usually because they don't want to bother creating a multitude of pages to build a good foundation for their site's future, they would rather take shortcuts.
Some shortcuts work better on certain types of sites, for instance, SmartPages may be better suited to smaller sites ... like micro or mini sites, since the goal is more "hit and run" to convert to sales. Content sites are geared more for relationships and "hit and run" tactics don't work well in building the foundation of that type of site.
If you want to use shortcuts, that's fine, just don't whine when they don't work anymore and you have to find something else, or do the work to build that foundation right. Sorry, couldn't resist that lol
Shortcuts basically have to be taken into consideration with the type of site, and goals you have, just like deciding whether you want to do a mini, micro or content site to promote affiliate programs. It depends on your goals for the long run, and whether these shortcuts can support your vision.
Debs
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Learn how to turn keyphrases into quality, well-targeted articles your visitors and SE's will love with Gary Antosh's new ebook "Web Content Made Easy!" |
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Jscott
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Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:41 pm
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Right or wrong? Who says that is a good question to ask? Maybe it is. However, it must be thought through more.
If the answer of "tricking" search engines is wrong then we must ask what constitutes "tricking." Is using a .htaccess hack to turn dynamic content into understandable URLs so they get indexed a "trick?"
What about error pages turned to link to the home page after hitting a broken link? What about what about what about.
Point is that asking right or wrong is a tedious and unproductive question on this matter.
The question is is this best long term or short term. Who gets to decide what is best for searchers? WHat if I said that my main content was better than debs on the debt side. However, since she optimizes and has more marketing link partners (not saying she does...just an example) that she gets ranked higher by a search engine {that is out for market share as well)...
Heck, I want in the game but want link parners from money mag or Fortune. Top sites. Until then I will "optimize" my way. Blah blah blah...
The issue is sticky.
Most conservatives try to pattern their building off of their thinking on what a "good search engine" does. Bringing relevant results to searchers.
That said they reverse engineer how they feel when they search for something.
It tends to be how I build. However, I have ranking power, traffic equalizer, smartpages, and on we go.
They are sitting in the back of my hardrive. They often cause me to think differently. I then try to couple shorterm with longterm. It often works.
I mean really...If you have a PR7 site that the engines love dont ya think you will link to a "newer" site with correct link text in order to get googlebot and pr flowing to the new site? Don't ya think you would be a bit biased as to whether that was a good site or not? Thus, in some ways, "abusing" pr? See, if you make this a right or wrong issue you can spend all your time debating this stuff in your head (which I just did) instead of just understanding and taking your shot.
It is all a shot. A gamble. Build one way and it might change. However, you have to go with what facts you have (first you need to know how to analyze this whole issue) and then move on em.
I think both sides have been presented well. Though DK could post again and help broaden his thinking.
I have people I respect on both sides of this issue. We often compete on the same platforms. Like Deb I don't report. I just try to compete.
In all honesty the problem is rarely about smart pages or not. The problem is getting a project going and finishing it and then moving to the next. |
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Sean Burns
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Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:54 pm
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Hi Jscott
I believe that the question of right or wrong is an important one to ask for one major reason. Google will send thousands of visitors per day to a site. I get over 4000 visitors per day to three sites from Google alone at the moment. They don't ask me to link to them and they don't ask me to pay them a cent. All they ask is that I produce good content and don't try to trick their crawler.
I know of sites that get over 15000 visitors per day from Google.
Now, it would be considered wrong to "trick" our other sources of traffic - affiliates, link partners, JV partners, ezine owners but for some reason many people think its OK to trick a SE because they are this huge faceless entity.
I believe it is wrong to trick anyone (or anything) - and it's not smart business. If I ignored all of the income that I make except for that which comes from Google traffic, I still wouldn't have to go to work each day. So, it's definitely wrong to trick them - I should send them a gift to thank them
Having said all that, I do agree with one of the points that (I think) you are making - at least it gets people to do something. One of the crazy things about these tools is that the people that use them have in most cases never tried to target the same keywords before.
Cheers
Sean Burns |
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Jscott
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Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 2:37 pm
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Sean,
I am sure my point got muddled. I often do not think through posts like I do articles. I just let em fly. My apologies.
My premise is that "right/wrong" are relative in discussing engines. Mainly because, it must be made on a point by point basis. I thought my "trick" statement followed a logical pattern.
I threw the error pages and Mod hacks in there to make the point. Point being that search engines are not just for searchers to "use" (can a searcher trick an engine?). They are also for webmasters to use. They are the medium.
I guess the right/wrong wording is my issue. Mainly because, I do not believe that folks such as you or myself are pure from "persuading" the engines that our site is better that "site x." We do it through link text and page optimization. We really do not let Google decide, do we?
We influence Google or Msn or whatever. Or at least try. Smart pages (and the like), though they push further, attempts the same thing...though it is comes closer to manipulation, if not becomes it.
It is much like the debate on "ethical SEO's." Come on. Right, wrong, ethical, all have deep meanings and spur much deeper debate than is needed.
For the record, I fall on the side of conservative page development. Yet, I do so out of a Gamble that it is better for me long term. I am guessing that what I put out on the net is appropriate and helpful for searchers. However, it is a GUESS.
What if Google thinks I am off. Surely everyone must agree with me. I mean, after all I am the standard...or am I? That sentence right there is the pivot point.
Who sets the standards of relevancy? It seems that the search engine that brings the most traffic does. Now, what if someone thinks they are wrong? Now, make the same arguments.
See what I mean? The philisophical drama that can be played out is useless when dealing on the WEBMASTER end. It needs to be discussed on the algo's withing search engine teams.
Since I am not on one I think it better to approach things in views of "guesswork" as to whether my work on a site is short term gain (does well at first but will have to be reworked) or long term (a bit slower but stays and stays and stays).
That viewpoint is much more productive I think. It engages us to openly discuss pros and cons of workload, longevity of a site, residual income possibilities, short-term promotional spikes, and first mover advantage.
Right/wrong removes the possibility unless you want to be a search engine sinner
But yes, the main problem is not search engine manipulation. It is that most people won't take action. All because of noise someone put in their heads. |
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Debs
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Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 2:41 pm
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| Quote: | | Since I am not on one I think it better to approach things in views of "guesswork" as to whether my work on a site is short term gain (does well at first but will have to be reworked) or long term (a bit slower but stays and stays and stays). |
That's an excellent point ... but is it excellent because I feel the same way, or because it works? Either way, I agree!
Debs
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Learn how to turn keyphrases into quality, well-targeted articles your visitors and SE's will love with Gary Antosh's new ebook "Web Content Made Easy!" |
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Sean Burns
Joined:
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 1:05 am
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| Quote: | I threw the error pages and Mod hacks in there to make the point. Point being that search engines are not just for searchers to "use" (can a searcher trick an engine?). They are also for webmasters to use. They are the medium.
I guess the right/wrong wording is my issue. Mainly because, I do not believe that folks such as you or myself are pure from "persuading" the engines that our site is better that "site x." We do it through link text and page optimization. We really do not let Google decide, do we?
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When discussing ethical or unethical SEO, the issue of whether any SEO is in fact ethical often comes up. To understand it fully, we need to understand it from the search engine's perspective. We could say that the search engines don't want you to optimize - this would make all SEO unethical.
The thing is that it's not a correct place to start. Google in particular wants people to optimize their site because it helps them. They have information on their site specifically for webmasters which tells them what they need to do. They also have a page specifically about SEOs which is largely negative but says "SEOs provide useful services for website owners, from writing copy to giving advice on site architecture and helping to find relevant directories to which a site can be submitted"
In regards to the examples you gave, there is no problem with them. For the Mod hack part to be against the rules, you would have to assume that the SEs don't want to index a page - they do. By making the URLs search engine friendly, you are helping the search engines. Redirecting 404 errors doesnt really affect anything.
In my opinion it's pretty much a Black/White issue. The search engines make the rules (which are clear) and we abide by them. If they say don't use doorway pages or sneaky re-directs, we shouldn't use them - not try to justify their use (not that you are justifying it but other people do).
Anyway, it's an interesting discussion.
Cheers
Sean Burns |
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