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tat
Joined:
22 Mar 2005
Posts:
6
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Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:19 pm
Post subject: Sitesell affiliates, please read this to protect yourself
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I am an information systems specialist full time. Before I engaged in part time online sales and marketing as an affiliate just 3 weeks ago, i always wondered how can you know for sure that you get paid for your hard work. This fear has come true.
A customer of mine purchased SBI 2 weeks ago. I did not know and for some reason I wanted to check the integrity of sitesell accounting. I started to ask my customers if they made any purchase. 1 of them did purchase SBI throught my URL about 2 weeks ago. But my affiliate accounting page was always 0 for commission earned.
I asked sitesell and they told me (after a series of my emails of enquiries) that my customer was cookied to someone prior to me. I find this answer most absurd.
It is common industry knowledge that the latest affiliate or website that the customer purchases from gets the commission. It is so common that customers rarely purchase the first time, and they also can choose who they purchase from if they want to. You must wonder how many times you are not paid when your customers make the purchase through your URL. The sad thing is you will never know you are not credited fairly by sitesell untill you talk to all of your customers which is impossible.
When I aksed them if that means in terms of my commission, all the customers who now buy from me now but who were previosuly cookied to someone else are then considered not mine, I did not get a reply.
This is a very real concern for affiliates, who work hard to promote sitesell. I want you to know this problem exists. Please beware. |
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John Lenaghan
Joined:
09 Nov 2003
Posts:
86
Location:
Langley, BC, Canada
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:00 am
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Has this person bought another Sitesell product in the past? My understanding of the way their cookies work is that they are considered "temporary" cookies until someone buys a product. In other words, if someone else referred them to Sitesell first and they didn't buy anything, they would have a temporary cookie which your referral should overwrite.
Once a customer buys something, the cookie becomes a permanent cookie for the referring affiliate for that sale. Anything they purchase from then on, no matter how they get referred to the site, will be credited to that affiliate.
_________________
VREFlipping.com - Learn how to get the most for your site when you sell it, even if it's only making a few cents a day. |
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tat
Joined:
22 Mar 2005
Posts:
6
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:11 am
Post subject: reply
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Hi John
Thanks.
This person has not bought anything from sitesell before. That is the concern.
You mentioned that "once a customer buys something, the cookie becomes a permanent cookie for the referring affiliate for that sale. Anything they purchase from then on, no matter how they get referred to the site, will be credited to that affiliate"... I will add this - But if this recurring customer were to in the near future click throught to sitesell from a new URL or a new website and make a purchase, I believe this new affiliate of the new URL will get the cookie and will get the commission. Is this right? |
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John Lenaghan
Joined:
09 Nov 2003
Posts:
86
Location:
Langley, BC, Canada
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:24 am
Post subject: Re: reply
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| tat wrote: | | You mentioned that "once a customer buys something, the cookie becomes a permanent cookie for the referring affiliate for that sale. Anything they purchase from then on, no matter how they get referred to the site, will be credited to that affiliate"... I will add this - But if this recurring customer were to in the near future click throught to sitesell from a new URL or a new website and make a purchase, I believe this new affiliate of the new URL will get the cookie and will get the commission. Is this right? |
I don't think so. It's been a while since I read the 5 Pillars manual, but if I remember correctly the commissions are considered "lifetime" commissions for the original referrer.
I could be mistaken, however. There are quite a few other people on this forum who are pretty familiar with Sitesell - hopefully one of them will confirm if this is the case.
_________________
VREFlipping.com - Learn how to get the most for your site when you sell it, even if it's only making a few cents a day. |
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Debs
Joined:
16 Aug 2003
Posts:
4296
Location:
NY
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:39 pm
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Sitesell has lifetime cookies; and you don't need to buy to have one set for you either; if the person signed up in Value Exchange they are lifetime cookied; there may be other instances as well.
No, it isn't absurd; it's quite well laid out in the 5th Pillars manual which you got when you signed up. Did you read it?
Debs
_________________
Learn how to turn keyphrases into quality, well-targeted articles your visitors and SE's will love with Gary Antosh's new ebook "Web Content Made Easy!" |
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AllanGardyne
Site Admin
Joined:
02 Jul 2003
Posts:
6326
Location:
by the beach, Australia
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Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:02 am
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Hi tat, If you want to check out the details of the affiliate program, as well as the 5 Pillar Manual, see the Getting Started Action Guide. If you've mislaid it, you can login and download it.
The section starting on Page 21 describes when a temporary cookie becomes a permanent cookie and a customer becomes "yours" (lifetime commissions). It also explains how the program puts a lot of emphasis on rewarding affiliates who find new customers.
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Allan Gardyne
AssociatePrograms.com - You're here. Explore it! |
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tat
Joined:
22 Mar 2005
Posts:
6
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Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:49 am
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replies to Debs and allan
All i want to know is why I have to write to sitesell to ask for the commission? Can someone make knowledgible answers to that please. There is no point in asking someone to read something cos we are intelligent people here who have read it. If i can find the answer in that manual, i need not ask.
I hope you can understand my question. Simply put, this brand new customer has not purchased any item from sitesell, may have visited sitesell. So if this customer has been cookied to someone else prior, but now buys from me, should i get the commission or the previous affiliate she has visited before and got cookied.
Allan also says:
The section starting on Page 21 describes when a temporary cookie becomes a permanent cookie and a customer becomes "yours" (lifetime commissions). It also explains how the program puts a lot of emphasis on rewarding affiliates who find new customers.
Then why do i have to write to them to ask for my commission? Hey it is imposible for me to go around and ask all the visitors to my URL if they purchased. |
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tat
Joined:
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Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:07 am
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BTW Debs
Allow me to explain what is absurb. I have brought this up to other affiliates and they agree it is absurb too.
I find it most exciting and rewarding to have lifetime cookies and customers that i decided it was a right program for me to join.
This lifetime thing isnt absurb, what is absurb is their reason given to me. PLs read my entire email, not take a part and interpret it out of context.
1. what i refer to absurb is that i need to write a few times to ask for my commission after 3 weeks (surely you will not like this happening to you)
2. and the explanation they gave me was absurb too - they said the customer was cookied to someone else before therefore this is the reason i didnt get my commission when my customer bought it thru my URL. Now they have decided that I should get the commission, not that affiliate who my customer was cookied to before (i hope you see the point now)
what happens to that affiliate whose commission is now taken away from him, and that affiliate can be you or me one fine day infuture but you will never know probably. what happens to me or you if you have to sell and not get paid until you "interviewed" your customers which is impossible? what is the deciding factor at the end of the day, which is what i am asking.
So far there isnt an answer to that from this forum or the manual or from support at sitesell. If there will not be an asnwer, let it be. |
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Debs
Joined:
16 Aug 2003
Posts:
4296
Location:
NY
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Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:44 am
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Tat, you gave far more info in your last post than you did your first; I can see your concern now; your first post however didn't explain in detail.
Debs
_________________
Learn how to turn keyphrases into quality, well-targeted articles your visitors and SE's will love with Gary Antosh's new ebook "Web Content Made Easy!" |
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AllanGardyne
Site Admin
Joined:
02 Jul 2003
Posts:
6326
Location:
by the beach, Australia
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Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:11 am
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| tat wrote: | | All i want to know is why I have to write to sitesell to ask for the commission? |
I don't know. That doesn't make any sense at all to me. You could try again writing to SiteSell Support saying you don't understand the answer you received.
_________________
Allan Gardyne
AssociatePrograms.com - You're here. Explore it! |
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kleo
Joined:
25 Nov 2004
Posts:
25
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Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:24 am
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I can tell you my experience with SBI.
Last year I decided I was going to buy SBI after reading posts on here.
I had never purchased any Site Sell product before. I received a great
deal of help from people here. I decided that I should buy through a
link from the person who helped me the most. I made sure all cookies
on my computer were cleared. I then purchased through the link
and to make sure this person would receive credit for the order,I then
phoned SBI(Site Sell) and asked them who was going to get credit for
the sale. They gave me the name of the person. Great. Well guess what
I find out-That person never got a commission. I did not find out until
a few months ago. I had to quit last time due to family health issues.
I decided to start again with the 2for1 special at Christmas and went
and put a order again throught them. Guess what,again they never
received anything. I felt bad as this person has helped out and I wanted
to return the favour. So I would be very careful. I have nothing against
SBI at all. I plan on building my sites with them. I just thought people
here should know. |
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rara
Joined:
25 Mar 2005
Posts:
1
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Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:10 am
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Iappreciate reading this discussion cos i also had similar experience too, so discouraging i had resigned as a SBI affiliate. I have nothing against them if they choose to run the commission program in the way they do, but I am a very serious worker and when i mean to sell their products I will commit fully. But what is the use if I work like a busy bee but cannot be credited duely.Moment I signed up as their affiliate, I read all their manuals and in them Ken taught us to sell to groups. I did exactly. I had a customer who then purchased from me in my house, who learn of SBI only from me. I happily used my computer to help her sign up. But the commission never came even I asked sitesell. This is enough to tell me that there is no way any affiliate will know when actual solid sales are made thru their URL and not get paid.
I think many affiliates kind of live with this commission problem with affiliate programs in general, one affiliate told me, it is better to be earning 30% of your actual sales commissions than earning nothing at all if you dont be an affiliate of any programs.
I think this discussion will be of great benefits to all if someone who is experienced and knowlegible with tracking their own sales (I dont know how) to protect their commissions can share their precious knowledge so that affiliates can be rewarded fairly, I know it is not easy to close a deal and when it happens, you should get the credit. |
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AllanGardyne
Site Admin
Joined:
02 Jul 2003
Posts:
6326
Location:
by the beach, Australia
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Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:57 am
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I find these examples very strange. I've been an affiliate of SiteSell since... wow, I just checked. It's nearly six years. I joined in May 1999, and for several years I've regularly earned thousands of dollars in commissions each month.
In those six years I've had a lot of phone conversations with its President, Ken Evoy. I know how hard he works to make his products high quality and his affiliate program appealing to affiliates. He loves tracking and testing and goes to extraordinary lengths to get every little detail right.
Unlike every other company I've had any experience with, almost all - about 95% - of SiteSell's sales are generated via its affiliates. That's an astounding record. It means that SiteSell MUST treat its affiliates extremely well, because it lives or dies on the performance of its affiliates.
They'd desert it in droves if they thought they weren't being paid fairly.
I find the situations described here totally baffling. I do know one thing for sure - it's very easy to misunderstand things and to jump to wrong conclusions. This is specially true when a program is more complex than most.
Usually, a commission goes to the last referring affiliate. If a previous SiteSell affiliate has recommended a product and achieved a sale, then the customer "belongs" to the first affiliate for all subsequent purchases.
What about cases where no prior purchase was made?
As Debs has explained, the SiteSell affiliate program is structured in such a way that on some special occasions it is not necessary for a purchase to be made for a permanent cookie to be written to an affiliate. Affiliates are rewarded in this manner, for example, when they encourage webmasters to join the SiteSell Value Exchange. Details are in the Getting Started Action Guide.
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Allan Gardyne
AssociatePrograms.com - You're here. Explore it! |
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AllanGardyne
Site Admin
Joined:
02 Jul 2003
Posts:
6326
Location:
by the beach, Australia
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Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:52 am
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I contacted the President of SiteSell, Ken Evoy, and asked him to comment on the problems outlined in this discussion.
Here's Ken's reply:
===
The person(s) could be misunderstanding any variety of
issues, or, as an anonymous set of posts, it could even be a
setup from one or more folks with an axe to grind.
The solution is not addressable in a forum. It requires
very precise details and knowing who the affiliates and
customers are. While not addressable in the forum it can be
addressed at SiteSell...
1) Every e-mail to support has an address to reach me
directly.
2) E-mail me at that address with EXACT who-what-when
details.
3) Janice usually screens and sends only the ones she feels
that we have handled badly. In this particular case, even
if she feels it has been handled well, I'd like to see it.
So they should make sure to reference this thread URL.
--
You are right. It's easy to misunderstand. And
occasionally, the temporary cookie can be unfair. For
example, when it's clear that Affiliate A has worked hard
with a first-time customer directly and really did cause the
sale, but let's say that Affiliate B had the last temp
cookie on the person at time of purchase. The only way to
get B's cookie is to pass through THAT URL. Computers
simply do not do decide to do things differently at
different times. So B's URL was hit, either through typo or
forgotten visit.
But if they both write soon after the purchase, we've mailed
even you in the past to let you know that someone else
deserves a commission. It really has to be a strong and
credible story, because cookies do not get written by
accident, as I said. It hasn't happened, at least not to my
knowledge in quite a while, but I can remember doing this
with you in the past.
Permanent cookies are, though, permanent. We database-track
and often catch and correct affiliates trying to circumvent
this rule by getting someone else to buy with a different
e-mail address after erasing their cookies (which does not
work, by the way.) And yes, permanent cookies can be
assigned for Value Exchange signups, a non-purchase.
So the best way is to outline the case with as much
information and if not satisfied to contact me at the
address at support. Reference this particular URL and Janice
will post the outcome of this particular scenario.
You know we don't cheat affiliates -- it's a shame when
people jump to that conclusion rather than use the safety
valve (i.e., me). On the other hand, sometimes the system
has worked exactly the way it is supposed to work and they
just can't accept that the rules did not go their way.
I can't comment more until I receive precise details. The
saddest thing about this is when I look at the piddling
amount of money my daughter makes for sending so much
traffic to Amazon. She just pulled down all her links to
them, their overall structure, cookie life and payments are
so poor. The leakage of getting paid for referrals is
huge -- Nori earned next to nothing due to their structure.
We really try to be 100% accurate, but some leakage is
inevitable but very small. And certain affiliates could
indeed see their commission go to someone else due to
situations such as outlined above. The fact that we make
all our purchases auditable so that people can let us know
if they think leakage is occurring speaks for itself. We
WANT to know about these to makes sure people are paid
correctly AND to improve the system, when necessary.
Please remind them of this big picture.
Thanks much,
Ken
P.S. You may quote any or all of this, but my only other
replies to this must be personally to the affiliate who
feels that s/he has lost a sale unfairly. It's the only
way to sort through the exact details.
cc Janice and Tom/Shawn (heads of support)
===
As Ken says, very precise details are needed before anyone can know for certain what's happening here. If you're not satisfisfied with this response, I urge you to take the steps Ken describes. If you've used SiteSell Support, you'll have an email address where you can reach him personally.
_________________
Allan Gardyne
AssociatePrograms.com - You're here. Explore it! |
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wayne
Joined:
05 Sep 2003
Posts:
50
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Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:08 pm
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I don't promote any Sitesell products, their program always was way
too complicated for me to understand, and I don't promote internet
marketing related products. But I won't promote any product or join
any affiliate program if I don't get credit for a sale when someone
purchases through my link as a result of my promotion efforts, plain
and simple. |
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