Joined: 06 Jan 2005 Posts: 105 Location: Oxnard Ca 1 Hr North of Los Angeles
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:06 pm Post subject: Does Martell Proof Read His Own Manual?
I bought martell's manual and am reading through it for the first time. I printed it so its on paper and I don't check all of the links he refers to.
HOWEVER, today I'm on page 321 and looking at his
http://www.1st-free-satellite-tv.com/link-to-us.html I thought I'd see what he did.
That is a dead link to a site that you would think would be an example of his work.
If that is an example of a Martell site, I think Corey Rudl looks better all the time.
I keep encountering the mistakes Martell makes from the moment I purchased the manual right through the reading of it. It sure isn't a confidence builder. _________________ Bob
As for the this url, he must have abandoned the domain - it's no longer registered to him. I suspect he has migrated the content to a different url in his new group of sites.
Joined: 09 Aug 2003 Posts: 1838 Location: Columbus, OH
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:08 pm Post subject:
Come on' now; every other post I read from you is bashing him in one way or another. Not one nice gesture on the breadth of information he's providing.
To be brutally honest, your time would be much better spent applying the core concepts of his material, such as writing articles and getting link partners, rather than complaining about typos.
Yes, some of the sites in there are no longer in existence as he's moved on to bigger and better things. _________________ Robert
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Now now robert, relax. I was just responding to Bob's query. Gee , "bashing" sounds soooo harsh.. lol. Besides, Im quite sure James is doing just fine regardless of any critique from me or anyone else on here.
Actually, I've raised only one major criticism, which happened to generate a very long discussion. And it was a valid issue. For those considering his course, there's already lots of glowing reports. Personally, I also like to see the questions, problems, and critiques. Adds balance, and helps avoid wishful thinking.
But if it makes you feel better, yes, Martell absolutely has lots of good stuff in his ebook. He writes clearly, and his steps method is a big help for an absolute newbie.. etc.
And thanks for your generous concern and advice about how to spend my time. But trust me, my time is quite productive
Joined: 06 Jan 2005 Posts: 105 Location: Oxnard Ca 1 Hr North of Los Angeles
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:41 pm Post subject:
John,
I can almost understand typos, but a link to a site you say he doesn't even own and using it as an example in his just revised 2005 manual.
Interesting.
Robert,
Sorry, I'm not a Martell groupie yet. My experience so far with his sale, his BUZZ (all about the Cobra), his inaccurate manual, is not what I would want if this was my product.
Yes, I appear to be bashing him, if want to call it that, HOWEVER each instance is an accurate portrayal of what he has presented to a new customer.
I haven't finished reading his manual through yet. I don't have a martell site started. I can't say how good his methods of website building are.
Even his great postitioning in GOOGLE that he keeps talking about is not eveident from what I read in the forum. His sites got banned. If he has ones that didn't, like the one I thought I was going to see in his NEW manual, well...........????? _________________ Bob
Joined: 12 Feb 2005 Posts: 164 Location: Montreal, Canada
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:31 pm Post subject:
Hi Bob,
Yeah, I was disapointed with the broken links as well. From what I gather about the revised manual though is that he didn't correct typos, broken links, etc, he just put the new points (and links to them in the pdf file) in the revised handbook.
He no longer publishes his current sites due to plagarism issues. If you want to see a couple still up sites, i think http://www.1st-in-hockey.com and http://www.1st-in-baseball.com are still ok. His baby site is still live also. They may have been penalized at Google, but I found his baby site on MSN on the first or 2nd page.
I got worried too and started doing searches and couldn't find any of his sites in Google. That's when I ended up finding this site. So glad I did! I still think he's legit though and the fact that people here are doing quite well with his method encourages me. I hope that helps you.
FYI - I've bookmarked your site and enjoy your blog. Keep it up!
Joined: 09 Nov 2003 Posts: 86 Location: Langley, BC, Canada
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:39 pm Post subject:
I wouldn't be surprised if he just missed that link to the satellite tv site when he did the update. As mentioned in an earlier post, it's probably an older site that he either took down or migrated to a new domain. Someone obviously picked up on it and registered the domain for what it is now.
I'm sure the reason he doesn't publicize his newer sites is he simply doesn't want people copying him, attempting to reverse engineer him and other things that could disrupt his business. I really think the manual is secondary to James' affiliate business and he doesn't want to do anything that might cause him grief.
First impressions are often tough to overcome. If you started out on a bad note with him, these kind of issues will likely just add to the frustration. Personally, I've had success with his system and with his organization and these kind of typos or errors don't really bother me.
I'm hardly a groupie, I just think his system makes sense. There are others that I'm not so sure about that other people probably think are the best. The key is to find something that you're happy with and keep at it.
Joined: 06 Jan 2005 Posts: 105 Location: Oxnard Ca 1 Hr North of Los Angeles
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:43 pm Post subject:
Hi John,
I'm glad to hear you are doing well with the martell system. At least that is incouraging to a newbie. I am reading all of his material, subscribed to the BUZZ (not for long), listening to his online audio and doing my best to give his program a try.
Yes, I guess he did miss that "satellite" link. Just ONE oversite. However he also missed his contradition in his linking stategy. On page 60 of 2005 he tells us one thing and on pay 323 he tells us a totally different thing.
I guess as a new buyer of his material I'm supposed to know what is correct and what is wrong ---- do you suppose? So I should know which is correct between his site's information in the audio on GOOGLE and what he says in the 2005 manual. Again contradictory.
We new people just criticize too much and since we have no sites developed yet can't know that a few mistakes are ok and we should just figure it out ourselves. YEAH, RIGHT! His methods may be the best online, but his materials sure leave a lot to be desired. Luckily the last BUZZ is keeping me updated on the Cobra, so I sould be fine with my site building.
As valuable as the BUZZ is, if you would like some GREAT FREE online audio on website development, check out
[url] http://www.seoradio.com/show-archives/ [/url]
OR
[url] http://crazywebguy.com [/url]
Do you know of any other sites with audio web development on them? I'd like to hear about them.
OH, since the BUZZ doesn't tell about what might have happened on Martell getting banned. QUIET AS MOUSE. Listen to this article at SeoRadio which tells a lot by Glenn Canady, who also was banned. It gives a lot of insites into a man who had a lot of his sites banned by google.
[url] http://www.seoradio.com/20050215-banned-by-google-alternative-traffic-sources.html [/url]
Hi Tara,
Thank you for the compliment on the blog. I'm still not sure the direction that is going.
Your comments seem to ring true.
Yeah, I was disapointed with the broken links as well. From what I gather about the revised manual though is that he didn't correct typos, broken links, etc, he just put the new points (and links to them in the pdf file) in the revised handbook.
Which answers the question I posed in the title of this thread. "Does Martell Proof Read His Own Manual"? I guess a short book that that costs $167 doesn't need to be proof read or edited. Interesting way for a "guru" to run a business, regardless of whether his method works or not.
[url][/url] _________________ Bob
Last edited by BobsStuff on Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 09 Nov 2003 Posts: 86 Location: Langley, BC, Canada
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:35 pm Post subject:
BobsStuff wrote:
We new people just criticize too much and since we have no sites developed yet can't know that a few mistakes are ok and we should just figure it out ourselves. YEAH, RIGHT! His methods may be the best online, but his materials sure leave a lot to be desired. Luckily the last BUZZ is keeping me updated on the Cobra, so I sould be fine with my site building.
I don't really think you new people criticize too much at all. My post was not meant to downplay your criticisms, merely to point out that people will have differing opinions on different systems. In all honesty, I didn't notice any of the errors you've pointed out when I first went through the manual. Had I noticed them when I didn't have any proof of my own that it works, I probably would have been put off by it too.
I think you've touched on an important point when you say that "a few mistakes are ok and we should just figure it out for ourselves." I believe that comment is 100% true - you shouldn't just follow a system with blind faith.
The first site I set up using the Martell system was pretty much verbatim to the process in the manual. It is doing pretty well, but looking back on it there are a lot of things that I would change, knowing what I know now. I follow James' basic framework for my sites, but I do some things differently than he recommends and try things he doesn't even touch on.
A lot of these ideas come from other resources, such as the SEO Radio program that you mentioned. I've bought other systems, such as SBI, and try to integrate the best of each into what I do.
James has even recommended this process numerous times in the Buzz - he mentioned it again in the one that came out a few days ago. I don't think he would ever say his system is the final word - just the beginning framework for us to build on.
Oh, and I happen to agree with you about the Cobra. A 427 Cobra has been my dream car for 20+ years, but even I'm getting tired of hearing about it. It's been talked about less on the last couple of Buzzes, so I'm hoping it will be over now that the goal's accomplished.
Joined: 12 Feb 2005 Posts: 164 Location: Montreal, Canada
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:36 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Thank you for the compliment on the blog. I'm still not sure the direction that is going.
I say keep it the way it is, I enjoy it. My husband and I own a trailer/mobile home (parked) that we go to on weekends in the summer but I'd love to go full time rv'ing eventually. Alot of your tips apply to us also.
Quote:
Which answers the question I posed in the title of this thread. "Does Martell Proof Read His Own Manual"? I guess a short book that that costs $167 doesn't need to be proof read or edited. Interesting way for a "guru" to run a business, regardless of whether his method works or not.
Yes I was disapointed, but doesn't mean that I don't follow him. I am hyper-anal with spelling mistakes and notice them all. I really should be a proof reader but doing that all the time would bore me to tears.. lol I strongly suspect that James didn't feel it was 100% necessary to hire a professional proof reader for an ebook. I agree. He gets the information across in an easy to understand way. That's the important part. Yes there were a few contradictions, but if you visit his support page and go through all of it (long process, but worth it) they are explained. Even the contradiction with the Google report has been explained.
I should say, I'm not a groupie. And I didn't have the $167 to spend either. But I think that book was worth every single penny, even converted to Canadian dollars. The important information is clear, why should I care if a couple words are misspelled?
Quote:
OH, since the BUZZ doesn't tell about what might have happened on Martell getting banned.
Being a new buyer of the book, I wasn't even aware of the banning when I bought it, I only found out when I couldn't find any of his sites in the SE's and found this site. That being said, I'm pretty darn sure that if it was something that HE suggests that made it happen he would've shared it. Otherwise, it's not our business. I personally think he shares alot already, and c'mon, would WE be as open as he is?
Joined: 06 Jan 2005 Posts: 105 Location: Oxnard Ca 1 Hr North of Los Angeles
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:31 am Post subject:
Hi Tara,
Quote:
If you're really unhappy with the book, go for the refund. But I think you should look past a couple of dead links and typos and see the big picture
I am unhappy with his lack of preparation in selling a $167 book. At that price you can afford a decent editor. I'm not sure whether I'm happy with the book overall or not. I have just finished reading it for the first time today. I'm a newbie who need sgood information. I realize there is conflicting information between authors, but it shouldn't be in the same 2005 JUST RELEASED book by one author.
At this point I don't know what the "big picture" even is.
I keep hearing excuses for him and me being a compainer. Interesting.
Anyway, I have Corey Rudl's Binder and CD's so I'll read through it next. I will see what the difference is. I'm hoping to get the John Reese package very soon --- is it worth the big $$$?
This is a time consuming process, being a student of the internet. I want it all today and can't have it. I got two page written today. If I can do that daily before I hire authors, that should be good. _________________ Bob
Joined: 12 Feb 2005 Posts: 164 Location: Montreal, Canada
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:40 am Post subject:
Quote:
I keep hearing excuses for him and me being a compainer. Interesting.
Let me be clear - I wasn't knocking you or championing him. James Martell and his book aren't the be all and end all of the universe. I'm new as well, and I think his book was very helpful. Just MHO.
Quote:
I'm hoping to get the John Reese package very soon --- is it worth the big $$$?
Couldn't help ya there.
Quote:
This is a time consuming process, being a student of the internet. I want it all today and can't have it. I got two page written today. If I can do that daily before I hire authors, that should be good.
I wholly agree. I just wish I'd gotten into this years ago.
Joined: 09 Aug 2003 Posts: 1838 Location: Columbus, OH
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 6:59 am Post subject:
BobsStuff wrote:
Anyway, I have Corey Rudl's Binder and CD's so I'll read through it next. I will see what the difference is. I'm hoping to get the John Reese package very soon --- is it worth the big $$$?
Be careful not to get sucked into that routine, of surrounding yourself with so much information, and not enough time to implement it. You've got to strike a fine balance.
Naturally, don't be surprised if you come across discrepancies, all of the "gurus" have their different styles.
Most people will recommend as you get started to pick one guru and follow them to a T. Then, as you become more experienced, throw some testing of your own into the mix. _________________ Robert
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I agree that a typo now and then is insignificant. But I believe the issue Bob raised has to do with overall quality, and I agree there too. For $167, I expect more attention to detail and accuracy. Honestly, would anyone pay that if they saw his book in a bookstore ?? Could he get it published at all ? Ever wonder why none of the 'guru books' appear on the bookshelves ?
But Martell does have value. He gives beginners a very simple process to go through - people crave simplicity. And he can make you feel that anyone can do it, just as he did. He does clarify things nicely if you are still trying to put the pieces together.
At the same time, there is very little new in what he says - PAD, page optimization, link popularity - none of it is new. In fact, I've seen his keyword density views pretty much rejected on SEO forums.
Quote:
I keep hearing excuses for him and me being a complainer. Interesting.
Bob, I hope you don't change your style. I've also been called a complainer. People don't like their boats rocked, but I find it refreshing. Had I seen some honest critiques when I started, I would've made far fewer mistakes.
The groupie mentality is especially strong among the 'online biz' folks. Perhaps the potential money thing keeps people in a wishful thinking mode. And an $85 commission keeps plenty of sellers saying nice things. So anyone who "bashes" is viewed as a troublemaker, and probably unpatriotic
Tara is right that Martell is not the 'be all, end all'. But unfortunately, Martell urges people to avoid other "systems", and to stay away from forums ? Huh ?? Is it really because so many of us will get confuswd and fail ???
Yes, I know about 'analysis paralysis'. But overall, I believe people do better with more info, not less.
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