I agree that reading stimulates the brain, but does it really matter what? If it does, I bet you can't tell me how!
I was once walking down the street when one of those (quaintish) red buses we have over here drove by, which reminded me of a dream (reassuringly nothing to do with buses) which made me have an idea that earned me money.
I understand the point. I do believe that sometimes it's just perspective. I get ideas all the time and lead to the strangest places. However, I do think that many in the "internet community" (get myself in trouble here but who cares) are lazy since they just dabble in it. They don't force or motivate their brain to work.
Here's an example.
I use to have a group of (self employed) friends get together every friday morning for breakfast at 5:30 am. The time showed a committment. We spent time just rambling around throwing ideas. Once a mutual friend of ours in the group said he wanted to join us. We said sure. After about 4 weeks he called me up and said he just couldn't come any more. He couldn't understand -- how we came up with all these ideas.
I was able to respond to him in about 10 seconds and tell him exactly why! I simply asked if he was being PAID THIS WEEK... He said -- Yes Of Course.... My response was --- I'm NOT I need to find a way to generate income. He didn't have to think about improving his income. He knew a paycheck was coming.
Sorry for the ramble.... Many times I think eBooks work the same way. For me it helps me focus on a topic and look for improvments. It helps my draw from my complete body of knowledge to help improve.
One thing that has helped my business grow is being critical. Critical of myself!!!. I would challenge everyone in this business to step back from their work and ask yourself a couple of questions.
What is the one thing that slows you down or consumes the most time? What is the one thing that if you could improve it would make the most difference in your business? Be very specific.
Then focus on ways to solve that problem. Don't move on until you have improved it in some way. The results for me have been amazing!
Buying Ebooks, audio, video etc help me harness the minds of others in approaching problems and issues. The end result helps the business grow.
I do have a possible solution to your copywriting issue... no fancy words, promises or psychological ploys...
Quote:
Picking on them? I'm helping them learn to write for "people like me". What could be more helpful than that?
_________________ Gary
- ONE is to small of a number to be a success!
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ROFLMAO @ page on copyrighting for Charlie ... now that is priceless
Debs _________________ Learn how to turn keyphrases into quality, well-targeted articles your visitors and SE's will love with Gary Antosh's new ebook "Web Content Made Easy!"
Joined: 22 Aug 2003 Posts: 1322 Location: Gainesville Florida USA
Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 2:38 pm Post subject:
Charlie wrote:
Picking on them? I'm helping them learn to write for "people like me". What could be more helpful than that?.
The Netbiz info copywriting industry, in general, isn't interested in people like you and me Charlie. If they were, they would offer the _option_ to view a concise, get to the point, fact based, skip the thrills, business-like presentation.
Imagine that you were going to try to sell some service of yours to one of the industry leaders. If you didn't put on a to the point, fact based, no nonsense presentation you'd be escorted to the door pronto. Your buyer would demand respect.
We don't get the same respect, because we don't demand it.
When some of us do demand that respect, our peers label us whiners. Thus, as a group, we don't actually deserve respect, because we aren't sharp enough to require it.
Phil Tanny wrote:
The trouble is getting "the ClickBanks of this world" to see things the same way. It's the bad side of having consumer protection with credit cards. Having to return a physical product is enough of a deterrant to keep things sensible. No joy with ebooks.
It's probably technically possible to deliver ebooks in a way that would protect the author. The ebook might check a server for a registration number before opening. When you returned an ebook, your reg number would be cancelled. Whether it's worth it for the author to implement this is probably questionable. _________________ Free Email Discussion Group For Your Site
Your visitors will build your site for you.
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All the Best, _________________ Gary
- ONE is to small of a number to be a success!
Learn HOW TO create targeted, focused Content for your website!--> http://webcontenttips.com - Join Our Weekly Newsletter
Joined: 22 Aug 2003 Posts: 1322 Location: Gainesville Florida USA
Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:58 pm Post subject:
Hmm. How about this as a reasonable business info sales copyrighting standard?
We don't want to create another strict formula. That's the problem Joel encountered with some of his audience. Because his page may somewhat resemble a direct response formula that others have used to peddle BS, Joel gets immediately and unfairly lumped in to that category by some readers.
We want to encourage each writer/seller to communicate in their own unique voice, but having some kind of general guideline that a wide section of the customer community will accept may be helpful to sellers.
How about this as a general guideline?
Suppose we sell to webmasters the same way we would sell to a respected industry leader? Somebody like say, Ken Evoy for example.
We've managed to get a 15 minute meeting with Ken to sell him some service that we feel would be useful to SiteSell.
We've got our shot. 15 minutes. What are we going to do with it?
We won't try to create some elaborate rule structure that everyone must follow. We've got Ken, 15 minutes, our common sense, and our own unique personality. We can figure out our own pitch.
But if we think of how we would go about selling Ken, does that establish a broad general outline of how we might also go about selling other people in our business community?
Yes, we may need to give the average webmaster more explanation than we'd give an experienced person like Ken.
But why change the tone, focus, and overall strategy?
This is business. We're selling a business service. To business people. We are advising our readers to "treat it like a business." If we're going to be credible, don't we have to sell our service in a business-like manner?
How to define "business-like manner"?
How would we pitch Ken? _________________ Free Email Discussion Group For Your Site
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Some people want a short letter...
Some what long?
Some what video and other audio.
Let me up the stakes and throw something else into the mix.
You have no prep time.
You don't know the person at all.
Just know they have an interest in web marketing.
All you get is a nice little note which says... I've spoke with Phil and he has some interesting ideas. Give him 5 minutes! Please Allan from Associate Programs.
You immediately jump on a plane and carry your handwritten message into Ken's Secetary and she says... you have 5 minutes go on in.
How would you do it then?
Does that change the presentation?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
All the Best, _________________ Gary
- ONE is to small of a number to be a success!
Learn HOW TO create targeted, focused Content for your website!--> http://webcontenttips.com - Join Our Weekly Newsletter
Suppose we sell to webmasters the same way we would sell to a respected industry leader?
Some of those webmasters are respected industry leaders.
Others are brand new to the industry and may need to see an idea developed to a certain extent in the sales pitch before they will make a purchase decision.
Joined: 22 Aug 2003 Posts: 1322 Location: Gainesville Florida USA
Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 5:46 pm Post subject:
speedguide wrote:
It gets back to what motives people.
Right. It sounds complicated at first, because like you say, some people want long copy, others want short, video vs. audio vs. pyschic channeling and so on. Maybe we have a month to prepare, maybe 10 minutes. Etc, etc.
So we can't design a one size fits all formula (as so many seem so attached to doing). And it's better that we can't, because we don't want to bore ourselves to death. We want to encounter variety, we want to have options. We aren't going to try to replace one rigid formula with another.
But there are some commonalities we can build general principles on.
We are talking about selling business books. So one might guess the books should be business-like. And the sales approach as well?
What is "business-like"? How would we talk to a real business person _face to face_? That's a place to start, eh?
And underneath all the variety people are remarkably similar in some key respects, business people or not.
What is your reaction to the concept that I am smarter than you and I am going to maneuver you in to doing what I want you to do? Would anyone have a different reaction?
What motives people is 1) we treat them with respect, and 2) we have something they need.
My sense is that if we ask the question, "How would I sell this to Ken Evoy?" we can leave the door open to a lot of variety, and still be within general guidelines of selling business information in a business-like manner.
If we don't want to think of our customers as real business people, and talk to them as real business people, why would they regard us as real business people? _________________ Free Email Discussion Group For Your Site
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I'm probably wrong but to me you sort of answered the question... If you've read Ken's --- So What example ---- copy answers all the questions for a business person to make a complete, well informed business purchase or rejection.
Long text copy is the lowest barrier to entry. Nothing to download, stream, play, etc.
I must admit there are people much smarter than myself who combine all forms and they do it very well.
I'm still a piece of clay working on things open to change...
But --- the question you posted is still valid? Phil - "How would I sell this to Ken Evoy?"
All the Best, _________________ Gary
- ONE is to small of a number to be a success!
Learn HOW TO create targeted, focused Content for your website!--> http://webcontenttips.com - Join Our Weekly Newsletter
Joined: 22 Aug 2003 Posts: 1322 Location: Gainesville Florida USA
Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:43 pm Post subject:
speedguide wrote:
copy answers all the questions for a business person to make a complete, well informed business purchase or rejection.
Long text copy is the lowest barrier to entry.
OK, let's debunk one of the common copyrighting myths. (practising my eye catching, controvery generating headlines... )
Speaking generally about the direct response formula used to sell most net biz products:
Long copy is not about informing you the customer.
If it was you could indeed create a concise business-like report, with links out to all the details. This approach lets the reader self serve whatever details are important to them. This is the kind of presentation a real business person would ask of us during our 15 minute pitch. They aren't going to sit there quietly while we blab on about almost nothing for 43 screens.
Net biz sales pages are not written this way very deliberately because the point of long copy is to hypnotize you in to a elavated emotional trance state, which reaches it climax at the order button at end of page.
Where did I get this information? From visiting pro copywriter forums and following the conversations they have in private amongst themselves.
The often publically repeated notion that long copy is all about helping you, and informing you etc, is just more of the same copyrighting double talk jazz you so often get on the sales page.
Long copy itself is no sin, and neither is writing past a person's head to their heart.
But all the double talk BS that is part of the formula, and public discussion of the formula, pollutes the groundwater of public trust and damages every other author/affiliate who wishes to sell a Net biz product.
No industry can long survive if it doesn't learn how to police itself and require trust building standards from it's members. Rationalizing and excusing the baloney because it sometimes works is just a clever way to shoot ourselves in our own feet.
In my long copy sermonizing opinion.... _________________ Free Email Discussion Group For Your Site
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Phil you are touching on why much of the "net/direct marketers" suck as webloggers. It is a lack of engagement of readers.
the hyptnotic sales stuff works with a certain group within the personality spectrum. You will never convert certain groups with these types of long "proven" sales letters.
However, bring this up and they all say, but I get a consistent 2-3%.
And?
Engagement and voice. Two things missing from the NLP community. Ah well, I quit fighting the marketers and now, instead of competing against products, I compete against the content with voice.
Another day in the park. _________________ Gekko Speaks-The spot where my alter ego rants and raps about business and internet strategy.
I was tempted to see what is in this ebook so I bought it. For me its already made 4 of my sites look a lot better. I was already doing ok but a little tweaking doesn't hurt.
It gave me some ideas and made me get off my butt too so in that respect it was good.
I was tempted to see what is in this ebook so I bought it. For me its already made 4 of my sites look a lot better. I was already doing ok but a little tweaking doesn't hurt.
It gave me some ideas and made me get off my butt too so in that respect it was good.
So glad to hear that! And I plan on sending email updates on a weekly basis. Each week I'll share a new tip or discovery, increasing value to those who purchase the ebook.
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