Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 5839 Location: by the beach, Australia
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:02 pm Post subject:
Fab wrote:
Do you mean something like the arrow at coolshopping.info? As far as I understand the Google rules, this is not allowed. I think he?s risking his Adsense account.
That looks questionable to me. As I remember the AdSense rules, you're not supposed to write stuff encouraging people to click on the links.
The technique shown in the book is different. There's no "Hey, look here"-type text, just an arrow. Not as risky, I imagine. _________________ Allan Gardyne
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Joined: 22 Aug 2003 Posts: 1322 Location: Gainesville Florida USA
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:13 am Post subject:
robertb wrote:
Now, I'm not saying to be vulgar or anything like that, but if changing a few words, fonts, colors around doubles your sales, why WOULDN'T you do it?
Remember, the copywriters you refer to consider a 2% conversion to be a good return.
What happened with the other 98% of readers?
Before I said, "What the hell, you're going to offend somebody no matter what you do" I'd want to know why I was losing 98% of my audience.
It's probably not because of the color of the fonts. _________________ Free Email Discussion Group For Your Site
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Joined: 09 Aug 2003 Posts: 1838 Location: Columbus, OH
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:08 am Post subject:
Phil Tanny wrote:
Remember, the copywriters you refer to consider a 2% conversion to be a good return.
That really depends on the product and the copyrighter. And of course I would be more concerned about that other 98%.
Quote:
It's probably not because of the color of the fonts.
I just used that as an example. My point was that there is generally a reason behind the layout of those sales letters. They generally weren't purposely made to turn-off customers, people use them for a reason.
Personally, I don't know much about copyrighting (yet), but I do know that people like Timothy Warnock write sales letters like that for a reason. I remember one time Tim said this:
Quote:
"At one point during the testing, I changed the headline to a much less aggressive version (something that I preferred), and the conversion rate dropped from 4% to 1%."
Don't take this post as my opinion of how sales letters SHOULD be written, but studying things from a scientific standpoint, sales letters like this wouldn't have taken off if there was something else out there that gets better conversions.
And I'd imagine different tones of sales letters will work differently towards different audiences (ie. complete strangers or people on your newsletter mailing list). The only way to know for certain is test, test, and test. _________________ Robert
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:35 am Post subject: Joel Comm is breaking Google's rules
Here is what I wrote to Google
"Is the arrow pointing to the google adds on this website http://coolshopping.info against your rules?? If it is acceptable I would consider adding similar arrows to my sites. "
Here is their reply
"Hello,
>
> Thank you for your email. We currently do not allow our publishers to draw
> undue attention to the Google ads by adding graphics pointing to the ads.
> The images may encourage users to click on the ads that you're serving
> through AdSense. However, if users click on ads without the intention of
> converting to customers, advertiser costs can be artificially inflated.
> Therefore, such activity is in violation of our program policies.
>
> We kindly ask that you refrain from adding such graphics on your site. We
> appreciate your cooperation.
Joined: 22 Aug 2003 Posts: 1322 Location: Gainesville Florida USA
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:35 am Post subject:
Good points Robert, you state that position well.
We could say that testing by pro copywriters proves this or that about the value of their services.
Then we run in to a little problem.
If the copywriting industry in general (not referring to any specific individual here) demonstrates that it will happily use exaggaration to sell other people's stuff if testing shows it works, then how do we evaluate claims copywriters may make about their own services?
Yes, science is good. But it's not science to just stick a mic in to a copywriters face and ask them how well their services work, and then report that as the facts.
Anyway, I'm up to 5 cents worth of comments now. Probably enough. _________________ Free Email Discussion Group For Your Site
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:47 am Post subject: Checking in..
Hey Gang,
Thanks to Allan for pointing out this thread to me.
Yes, this is the real Joel Comm. I appreciate the lively discussion!
Like many of you, I am not familiar with ALL of Google's rules, but I certainly wish to adhere to them. I appreciate the member who pointed out that the "arrow" might be in violation of TOS. You are correct in saying that I would not intentionally damage my relationship with Google. I have had them email me before about another issue. They were very polite about the request, and I complied. Remember, they WANT us to succeed!
Now then, regarding the ebook and questions surrounding it. The simple truth is that I really did experience the increase that is stated on the web page. I shared it with some friends and they suggested I write an ebook on the topic. So I did.
As it turns out, I am getting lots of email from people thanking me for the ebook, as they are seeing an instant increase in their adsense.
Many people here assume that just because they are aware of some of the basic and advanced tips, that everybody is. The truth is the majority do NOT know how to do Adsense properly. If they are the primary market for my ebook, so be it!
Meanwhile, those of you who DO know how to do Adsense right may pick up a trick or two that you don't know. I find that if I learn even one new thing that bumps my revenue, the price of the material is more than worth it!
I attempted to create a sales letter that was straightforward and honest without unnecessary hype. Any decent sales letter must create excitement, though. I hope I do not cross any lines and am always eager to hear others input.
Finally, many of you will spot a good affiliate program when you see one. This ebook is selling quite well and I pay $30/sale.
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:07 am Post subject: Re: Joel Comm is breaking Google's rules
robertb wrote:
Fred Mercury wrote:
Looks like our Joel will be getting an email from Google soon , Ha ha.
It's for reasons like that I don't like to make all of my sites public. People always trying to take down those who reach the top.
You sound almost boastful...
It may not matter. Based on what I'm reading in other forums, AdSense doesn't seem to be very aggressive about enforcing their terms at the present time.
I did purchase your eBook and although much of it I already knew I, like you and you stated it so well.
Quote:
Meanwhile, those of you who DO know how to do Adsense right may pick up a trick or two that you don't know. I find that if I learn even one new thing that bumps my revenue, the price of the material is more than worth it!
Many times I purchase items for the one tiny thing I may learn. Heck If you started a fire under my Butt to test more it's worth it!!! I've already started doing more testing. Thanks. I did learn some things directly and indirectly.
Frankly.... I don't focus on your money claims... any money you make from adsense is great. My concern is the money I make from adsense... what improvements can I make.
I will close by saying that lots of people in my opinion are spending way to much time focusing on Adsense revenue and not enough on building revenue from other areas of the business. Don't get me wrong I want the Adsense to perform at it's highest level - but I don't want to base my business completely on something I have little or no control over. My goal is to not let Adsense get over 25% of my monthly income. _________________ Gary
- ONE is to small of a number to be a success!
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 6:24 am Post subject: Re: Joel Comm is breaking Google's rules
robertb wrote:
Fred Mercury wrote:
Looks like our Joel will be getting an email from Google soon , Ha ha.
It's for reasons like that I don't like to make all of my sites public. People always trying to take down those who reach the top.
You sound almost boastful...
So that's how one can reach "the top" or with sites like digitalprecision.net I suppose.
Wow, I guess we should encourage people to brake Google's terms. If not at least we should remain silent about it, as far as you seem to suggest.
Joined: 09 Aug 2003 Posts: 1838 Location: Columbus, OH
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:36 pm Post subject: Re: Joel Comm is breaking Google's rules
PaulB wrote:
Wow, I guess we should encourage people to brake Google's terms. If not at least we should remain silent about it, as far as you seem to suggest.
I never said that, and I don't support breaking the rules. But I'm not going to go out of my way to report them. I could understand if he said "Click my Ads NOW" but it was a freakin arrow, come on now...
People are too worried about other people's than success than their own. They want to reach their level, but find it easier to pull them down, then try to build themselves up. _________________ Robert
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Help me out --- do you disagree with the statement?
can also be ----
I'm more from the stimulate idea camp.
All the _________________ Gary
- ONE is to small of a number to be a success!
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Joined: 22 Aug 2003 Posts: 1322 Location: Gainesville Florida USA
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:31 pm Post subject:
Could someone please tell me where I can download a free emoticon reader??? _________________ Free Email Discussion Group For Your Site
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And of course I would be more concerned about that other 98%.
People always trying to take down those who reach the top.
