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Charlie · **Joined**: 22 Aug 2003 **Posts**: 3305 **Location**: UK

One other related point regarding wide pages - printability...

Some browsers (mine included) still don't cope very well with wide pages. In other words, part of the page is cut off on the right - sometimes even text, that you'd expect to be wrapped.

This happens somewhere between 600 and 800 wide for some sites on my settings. Only the narrow sales page style prints properly - whether centred or not. Printing in landscape is certainly not my cup of tea, thanks.

OK, you can set up a print this page link, but if you expect people to print and read your page, it's something to consider.

Just a thought,
Charlie.
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bradley · Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:21 pm Post subject:

Charley, good point. Nothing bothers me more than when I go and print sopmething out and it misses the last word of each line. arrrghh

But I would think if you went the with stretchable design, it would be easy enough to make sure the table you have for your content would not end up this way, am I correct?

Ok, new question regard to printing....does it matter what resolution i am viewing on how the printed page turns out?

Oh one more peeve, lol....something to keep in mind with the "print option" button....i read a lot of newsites and i prefer to print off the page instead of their print option bc of the way its spaced, its much easier to read. Their print options are to long of lines which takes longer to read. I can speed read when its shorter width. If I was going to use a print option, i would try to keep it at a more narrower width so its easier to read. Any opinions?
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Mike Long · Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 5:41 am Post subject:

I bought Martell's handbook in October 2002, and other than one aborted attempt, I'm just now getting around to building sites using his methods. (Doesn't take me long, does it?) Wink

Anyway, this question was asked of James very early on, and if I recall correctly, his main reasoning for the fixed width of his sites at that time was due to the fact that many of his articles at that time were in the 150 word range, which is quite short.

The logic was, if you expand that to 1024 x 768, you only end up with a handful of lines of text.

Making the sites fixed at 800 x 600 made the articles appear longer and fuller then they really were.

~Mike

speedguide · Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:51 am Post subject:

Why not use who Martell uses... Andrea at http://goldenpinecone.com

I'm switching!
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Mike Long · Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:42 am Post subject:

I will use those going forward, that's for sure.

I'm also using Lynne Robson's tempates, (formerly at www.apixelpixie.com, now moved to their own site at www.1st-in-web-templates.com) which is who James mentioned in the handbook.

I'm kind of frustrated by the sparse instructions that are included with the templates. Lynne offers a manual for $50 that is quite good, but I can't help but feel that there is too much of a "gap" between the included instruction set and the additional manual. I do actually like the design of Lynne's templates a little better for many of my sites, though they both have their strengths.

They had several "includes", and over the past two days, I've created several more in order to modularize it as much as possible.

One problem though, is that her template is triggering the "active content" warning on IE using Windows XP SP2. I've emailed her about it but haven't received a response.

The warning response on IE in SP2 is extremely over-active. Those who are using it will know what I mean. It's going to cause big headaches for lots of us in the months (and years) ahead.

I'd like to convert the world to using Firefox 1.0, but that's going to take awhile. Wink

I may need to find a programmer who can tell me what's going on there.

~Mike
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speedguide · Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 3:17 am Post subject:

I met Andrea at CJU and we spent some time talking over the 3 days. She brings a lot to the table. She's done 3 templates for me so far. As I rework some of my sites I'll move over to her templates.

People focus so much on just price when buying templates --- see my hand - it's raised. From her template I picked up one item that changes the way I build sites.

Thank You Andrea

Plus she knows the affilate business and design. I can't recommend her enough. She's got my business. --> http://goldenpinecone.com
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etcetera · Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 2:43 pm Post subject:

speedguide · Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 3:27 pm Post subject:

Gail,

We can all learn -- sometimes just from an approach or a thought that is triggered. That's where I find a lot of gems in the buzz.
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apixelpixie · Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 6:15 pm Post subject:

So here are the technical and professional whys...
James' sites are not set to a fixed width because they are any better or worse in the indexing of his sites...it is purely a design and screen resolution issue. Most designers today are developing fixed width sites because if the different screen available to visitors.

At one time we all designed for the 800 res visitor...it was easy to make a full screen res work...no matter how much content was added to the page the screen was easy to read and you did not have to travel the page to see to the end of the sentence...since resolutions have become larger...if you put your content into a full screen you have content spread well across the page and this is difficult to read...for the same reason your newspaper uses columns, try to imagine your newspaper putting all the content of its newspaper strait across the page...

In order to make reading your content easier we need to compress the space it takes up on the screen. While we are still keeping in mind the 800 res viewer and setting or table left aligned or centered to fit their screens, we are not designing the "Fixed Width" just for them. As resolutions become larger you will continue to see fixed widths more and more to create an easier reading space for your visitors. Sorry to say, this is the trend of today, and will be so for some time to come.

Just a designers 2 cents
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http://robsondesignworks.com
Templates and custom development for all website needs.
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Affiliate Marketing Templates :: EBook Covers :: Sales Letter Templates :: Web Development Guides :: Tutorials :: Custom Development and much much more...

apixelpixie · Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 6:37 pm Post subject:

Just a quick reply to Mike...
Buying my Guide to using the templates I develop is not a "Money Grab"...
It is meant purely as a means to help those site builders that have not used FrontPage or developed a site in the past. When James' book first came out I spent 100s of hours a week supporting James' students in the development of their sites...and then some. Don't get me wrong...I have always offered support for my product, and will continue to do so. But most of the problems people where running into where FrontPage development issues. I just don't have the time to create templates for James and other affiliate student, design for my main site as well as develop for my custom clients if I have to also teach FrontPage to new users. There just is not enough time in the day to do it all.

I had several requests from student to develop a manual that would help them get their sites up with less effort and frustration, so on my last holiday I wrote the guide. It is not intended to teach FrontPage, but to address the common editing issues need to develop a website. Without tooting my own horn...or begging to be understood...I spent a huge amount of time developing the guide...and I feel it is well worth the $50 dollar price tag. Those students that I have received feedback from have found it well worth the price.

And as with everything else the guide is optional...which is why it is not packages along with the templates. Some people do not require it, and others do...I do not demand you buy it...I only recommend it as a support resource to help you build a great site.

Okay...that is all I am going to say on the issue...

As an aside...Like all things technical...sometimes email are lost or misplaced, if I did not answer you email concerning the active control issue, I am sorry...please send me you url again and I will see what I can do. Since I do not use XP on my computer, I will try to get another developer that does to have a look and see where the error is coming from. If it is a template issue, I will get you a fix...
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Lynne Robson
http://robsondesignworks.com
Templates and custom development for all website needs.
http://1st-in-web-templates.com
Affiliate Marketing Templates :: EBook Covers :: Sales Letter Templates :: Web Development Guides :: Tutorials :: Custom Development and much much more...

reikiman · Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:23 pm Post subject:

While most current systems start at 1024x768, there's a lotta older systems still out there. As others on the thread said, if your design forces people to horizontal scrolling they'll hate you, it's that simple.

Now you could go to a dynamic design that reflows itself to whatever size screen is being used. Then it'll work for anybody ..

...except...

Here's a consideration: I remember reading once of a study about readibility of text, and how wide the lines are. Think about reading a very wide piece of paper, and how many times do you get to the end of a line, and then your eyes are scanning back to the other side of the page and you have a hard time matching up with the next line and maybe you reread the same line again.

There's a reason why newspapers use narrow columns.

On my sites I use dynamic widths for everything, and put stuff like advertising on the right and left columns.

- David
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Mike Long · Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:58 am Post subject:

Hi Lynne,

Thanks for jumping in and explaining your side of the "manual".

Perhaps I was a bit over-aggressive in my use of the term "money-grab". I'm more then a little embarassed by that, especially considering the fact that I use and like your templates. I've gone back and edited the post, and I'll try to describe my thoughts below, without the emotion attached. Smile

I simply found myself a bit frustrated at what I perceived to be a somewhat sparse standard intstruction set for the templates. I've been building sites for 7 years now, and even I had some trouble getting the template set up to use in the manner I wanted to use it. I could only imagine what a novice might go through.

I found the manual to be very complete when it came to helping me set the site up properly, and I do recommend it if you are going to purchase Lynne's templates.

I just found the gap between the standard instructions and the manual to be much wider then I expected, which made me feel like I "had" to purchase the additional manual to get my site up and running. That's why I reacted so emotionally.

I try not to do that, and I do apologize for it.

If I may, I would like to offer a couple of thoughts in the hopes that you might take these items under consideration going forward.

1) Adding just a bit more "bulk" to the standard instructions would be extremely helpful, so that a novice site builder could get their site up and running without the extra manual, if they so choose.

2) I believe Windows XP was released in May 2001 (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). After nearly 4 years, a very solid percentage of users have switched over to XP - I believe nearly 50% (again, someone please correct me if I'm off here).

I strongly feel that somehow finding a way to run XP in some form in your design studio will benefit you, and your clients greatly over the long-term.

Thanks again,
~Mike

P.S. I use templates from both Lynne at www.1st-in-web-templates.com and Andrea at www.goldenpinecone.com. They both do a fantastic job with their designs.

Each follows the "Martellian" layout faithfully, yet they approach the look and feel (design) of their templates from very different perspectives. You can't go wrong with either of them.
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apixelpixie · Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:42 pm Post subject:

Hi Mike...

Thanks...

FYI...I do have a larger help section on my site, which while it is not a robust as the guide, it is much denser then the "basic" instructions included with the template.

http://www.1st-in-web-templates.com/help.asp

And yes, you are right XP is becoming the norm in OS use, and I wll need to go that route in the next bit...

I have been using 2000 since before its release date...friends in high places, lol. As a developer, I like the stability of 2000 and will be sad to let it go eventually...I have used XP...but was a little disapointed with it, and found that the stability was not as good as 2000...and I was not happy with the "user freindly" lol, features.

At any rate, you are right, I will need to upgrade in the time to come...
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Lynne Robson
http://robsondesignworks.com
Templates and custom development for all website needs.
http://1st-in-web-templates.com
Affiliate Marketing Templates :: EBook Covers :: Sales Letter Templates :: Web Development Guides :: Tutorials :: Custom Development and much much more...

christof · **Joined**: 31 Oct 2004 **Posts**: 109

I'd also like to give a big thumbs up to Lynne at apixelpixie. I have never designed or built a web site before, this current project has been my first one.

I did buy the additional manual, for the simple fact that I didn't want to type or delete the wrong thing in the wrong place and really bugger everything up.

I couldn't be happier with my results so far. It looks like I've been building web pages for years, I thought the templates were excellent.

One thing I have found on my journey through this project is their are a lot of dis-honest people on the web, selling services and products that contain next to no valuable content, one area that scared me was web hosting, it is a complete mine field.

I can say with all honesty though that the products sold by Lynne are worth every penny. The service from her has been excellent as well. So I'd just like to say thank you.

I didn't even get paid to say all that either!!!!

apixelpixie · Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:26 pm Post subject:

so where do I send the cheque?...heheheh

Thanks for all the kind words...as always...I am here if you need me.
_________________
Lynne Robson
http://robsondesignworks.com
Templates and custom development for all website needs.
http://1st-in-web-templates.com
Affiliate Marketing Templates :: EBook Covers :: Sales Letter Templates :: Web Development Guides :: Tutorials :: Custom Development and much much more...

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