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nunkey

Hey everyone!

My first site (paintball-related) is nearly finished... I built it with SBI! using the James Martell system.

Just quick: About 1 month ago, my traffic went from about 70 hits to 90 a day. My Google PR was 0 - had been since day 1 (started building about 4 months ago).

But a couple of days ago, my Google PR had gone from 0 to 5 according to the Google Toolbar.

Would my increased traffic, starting one month ago, be caused by a raise in my Google PR?

Or should I be expecting much higher returns in traffic due to the sudden Google PR increase?

My Love and Thanks,

Scott Stevens
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Voasi · Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 9:09 pm Post subject:

Hi Scott,

PageRank doesn't effect ranking in the search engines, and therefore traffic. The PR increase does mean you have a good amount of incoming links to your site and that can contribute to more traffic.

Google PR updates and algorithm updates are two different things. Most people associate higher PR with a shift in rankings, which isn't true. They happen at different times and actually, Google tweaks their SERPS (search engine result pages) quite frequently.

Google has probably indexed, or counted, a lot of your IBL's (inbound links) and has placed your site accordingly in the result pages (which is hopefully in the top ten! Smile

)

Hope that helps! Wink

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nunkey · Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 9:21 pm Post subject:

Thanks, Voasi!
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ngs1 · Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:10 pm Post subject:

Voasi, I couldn't help putting in my two cents worth here ....

How can you say that pagerank doesn't affect your ranking in the search engines?

Am I wrong in thinking that the two main factors affecting your ranking are on page optimization and pagerank? (pagerank being a combination of the number of inbound links and the quality of those links)

I would say that yes, Scott, your increase in pagerank should positively affect your ranking, (all other things remaining equal) and if you get any top 10 results in Google on keywords that are in demand you should get a positive spike in traffic.

Yes google changes their algorithm frequently which can also affect your ranking. But that doesn't mean pagerank doesn't count.

Feel free to challenge me on this! Wink

nunkey · Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:19 pm Post subject:

Aaah, and thank you, ngs1! This is very interesting.
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Voasi · Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 11:59 pm Post subject:

ngs1, never too late in the day for a challenge! Smile

Debs · **Joined**: 16 Aug 2003 **Posts**: 4296 **Location**: NY

Voasi is right, it's the quality of the inbound links and the anchor text (clickable text) used in those links that help with ranking in the SERPS than actual PR.

PR is just a relatively easy way to see about where you stand, it's relative and like any tool you need to take it with a grain of salt. The real measure is the traffic you get and how you convert that traffic to your MWR (most wanted response).

Debs
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ngs1 · Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:04 am Post subject:

Voasi and Debs,

I think your arguments have some merit but are also lacking in certain aspects. Whilst there is no dispute that for certain search terms page-rank has been diluted it would be an overstatement to completely disregard it's importance.

"You can see direct results of this in the SERPS. If your PR was a reflect of your rankings, then PR6,7,8 pages would be at the top of Google's search engine. I know, and have, several top rankings with just my little PR 2,3, and 4 pages. "

How optimised for those keyphrases are the high pagerank pages that are below yours in the list? If google determines your page is more relevant to the search term then obviously it's going to give it more weighting than a higher pagerank page with less relevance.

Go to http://www.seochat.com/seo-tools/pagerank-search/ and type in 'search engine optimization', you can see that none of the results are below pr 6 and the top result has pr 8. The only way you can hope to suceed on a term like this is to have high pagerank AND to have your on page factors optimised effectively. BTW don't put quotes around your search term as that is not how people search.

In fact go to the overture search term suggestion tool (http://inventory.overture.com/d/searchinventory/suggestion/) and pick a keyword such as 'ferrari' (searches 174380). Then go and type that into the pagerank search tool. Notice how there is nothing under a PR 5 on the list? Then type in 'ferrari north america' (searches 776) Notice how the results show a PR 6 on the first place then the remaining results shift down to PR 3's and 4's? Being a more specific key term there is less demand so less focus from the 'big guns' who optimize on more general terms.

For less competitive key-phrases, the factors would definitely shift towards on page optimization and inbound link text. In Scott's case I would imagine that he could do very well with SEO due to the niche topic - I doubt there is the kind of savage competition for paintball related terms that there is for search engine optimization.

I definately agree on the point regarding great content, ultimately that is what is rewarded by the search engines in the long term. If you haven't got good content then you're just a spammer and you're on the 'hitlist'.

netadventures · Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 5:46 am Post subject:

Voasi · Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 8:45 pm Post subject:

DatabaseDesigner · Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:36 pm Post subject:

I give full credit to Voasi.

Just check out this: Search Google for 'ref cursor' (without the quotes).

My site is no.1 with PR 4. Below me there are PR 2, 3 and even 0 amongst the top 10.

Go to the next page: Another of my PR4 pages pop up.

Further down comes Microsoft with a PR 8 page...

Can we settle this, in favor of Voasi Question

(BTW: You may not know, but ref cursor is a crucial term when programming against databases, unfortunately).
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ngs1 · Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:05 pm Post subject:

No, you are both wrong.

The tool I linked to defaults to showing the results in the same order as the SERP's. There is an option to order by pagerank but the default is 'relevance' which is the same as the SERP's. The only differences that you might see between using this and querying google directly is that this tool may be querying a different google datacentre. Different datacentres sometimes have varying results.

Databasedesigner, may I ask what keyword phrase you are ranked above microsoft for? My guess is that the microsoft page isn't targeting your specific phrase as such, perhaps a more general keyword and thus Google doesn't determine it's relevance is as high as yours.

"The way you beat out that kind of phrase is have on target anchor text when getting links, achieving one-way links, receiving links from industry related pages, and having good on-page search engine optimization for your keyphrases. "

I agree these techniques all work and are important steps in SEO. But a page that does all that AND has high pagerank WILL beat the same page with a lower pagerank. Why else do you think the SERP's for terms like 'search engine optimization' are dominated by high PR pages?

I have a challenge for you. Get on the first page for the term 'microsoft' without pagerank. According to your theory you should be able to achieve this quite easily since pagerank doesn't matter.

ngs1 · Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:16 pm Post subject:

My apologies for not reading your post correctly. You already told me your phrase in your post.

I found the microsoft page in result 43. This is a support page. Why would microsoft go to great lengths to optimize this term? You'd hardly call it a serious source of monetization for them. They can't be expected to perfectly optimize every single web page they have online ...

DatabaseDesigner · Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:20 pm Post subject:

ngs1,

My page has the HIGHEST pagerank (4) of all the pages on the top 10.

Of course I target my page content. That is why Microsoft is deep in s..t: They don't know that If they targeted their content, they would blow me off. They obviously don't pay attention to their content vs. search engines.

Oh well, some smart guy will read this, and then I'm not No. 1 anymore Evil or Very Mad

Working on competing with Microsoft for the term 'Microsoft' is bull: That keyworod is all over their place and you know it.

However I could beat them at anytime for the word 'Macrosoft'... Laughing

Based on my experiences, it would take me 2-3 weeks to get on top with Macrosoft. What's the point. I think Voasi have said what I have experienced. This was just one of numerous examples I have.
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DatabaseDesigner · Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:29 pm Post subject:

ngs1,

We obviously cross-posted Laughing

I will give you a second chance: not more.

Read my ebook: In the second-to-last chapter (I think), I describe how I outrank Microsoft, IBM and Oracle, for several important terms in their line of business.

Why? Because I am concious about SEO. I do not have a higher page rank than them: I'm working on it; do you think I'll get there Question

Remember: I'm the little, single guy; those are multi-billion companies. Still, they're behind me in the queue Cool