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John Glube
Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 28
Location: Toronto, Canada
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:59 pm
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| Phil CA wrote: | John,
I agree, really making a decision to walk away from anything prematurely from being frustrated usually turns out to be a wrong decision in so many things in life.
I just felt it was another interesting take to the discussion.
All the best
Phil |
Phil,
Yes and I should have added, thank you for bringing this to all our attention.
Why?
Because people must understand, when things seem bleak, especially during the night before the dawn is never the right time to surrender.
(Look at Allan's business. He went through a period of time when times were tough and he had to look at himself in the mirror. But did he give up? No. And since then he has never looked back, going from success to success.)
Retrench, regroup and refocus - yes, perhaps. But surrender, no.
Now in saying this I don't know the underlying reasons why the individual involved made the particular decision.
It may be he simply decided, there are only so many hours in the day, if I focus in this direction, I can generate a far higher return on my investment, I want to change markets, move in an entirely different direction, so on and so forth.
I can't speak for the individual involved.
My point? In making business decisions, don't give up simply because the situation looks bleak. To paraphrase a qoute:
"Obstacles are the blinders we put on to take our eyes of the goal."
Kind regards,
John _________________ Check out the The Zen List Of Marketing Forums and while there subscribe today to the The Journal to keep up todate on developments affecting your online business. |
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Phil Tanny
Joined: 22 Aug 2003
Posts: 1324
Location: Gainesville Florida USA
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 4:51 am
Post subject: Re: Too soon ...
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| John Glube wrote: | | We have not seen what the impact will be once the FTC gets truly organized and DOJ starts putting folks behind bars. |
As a reminder, the Net is a global medium, and 95% of the world's population lives beyond the jurisdiction of the United States Department of Justice.
We should keep in mind that the US government has never figured out how to stop millions of illegal aliens from flooding across US borders, even at a time when we are under serious threat from terrorists.
When you write the FTC, this is who you are writing. _________________ Free Forum And Ezine Hosting
http://Engage-Engine.com |
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Adam Murray
Joined: 11 Apr 2004
Posts: 50
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 6:08 am
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| Did they finally pass the new law? What happend? |
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Guest
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 7:47 am
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| Adam Murray wrote: | | Did they finally pass the new law? What happend? |
Of course not, and, newsflash for everyone, it will never pass. So, I guess we can add tons more wasted bandwidth used on this discussion to go along with that wasted by spam. |
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John Glube
Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 28
Location: Toronto, Canada
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:27 am
Post subject: Re: Too soon ...
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It is true the vast majority of the world's population lives outside of the United States.
Although the mad daily scramble to get into the United States might raise a question or two as to why, despite all the naysayers people want to get into the United States?
We can decry the reality about the United States, but it is one of the most open nations in the world.
We can point out the flaws within the US system. But each nation state has its own flaws. Here in Canada, by all reports we remain a haven for every terrorist group under the sun, due to our liberal immigration policies. And our treatment of aboriginals is not something to write home to mother about.
In the case of dealing with unsolicited bulk email, it is general knowledge US citizens are by far the major source of the stuff, even though it may appear to come from else where.
Some are of the view the existing delivery system for email is broken and needs to be changed.
The Commission in its call for registry proposals in February understood this reality when it asked for proposals to develop a domain wide registry system with authentication models.
(In late February, the IETF issued a draft convention to describe hosts authorized to send SMTP Traffic, SPF or Sender Policy Framework in short.)
It is interesting to note the USISPA, the United States Internet Service Providers Association in its comments to the Commission on the do-not-email-registry filed on 31.03.04 acknowledged the merit in this proposal.
At the same time, this organization, suggested a domain registry system would impose significant administrative burdens on ISP's (translate - "loss of control to the Commission") and the private sector should lead the charge in developing authentication solutions.
The Internet is a global medium. True, but the hub is the United States and decisions made in Washington have a bearing on activities in New Delhi, Peking, Sydney, Soel, Tokyo, Manila, Jakarhta, Singapore and Auckland to name just a few of the capitals in the Asia Pacific rim.
A quick example. Last year, it became common knowledge spammers were using a series of open relay servers in and around Peking, along with other locations within China.
Some ISP's, frustrated with the situation began to simply block all email traffic coming from China.
Given the limited internet infrastructure within China, this caused significant disruption.
China protested to the United States. The US Government (with a wink and a nod to the ISP's) apparently responded by telling the Chinese we can't prevent US ISP's from blocking Chinese e-mail traffic.
Suddenly, China found all Chinese e-mail traffic routed through US servers was being blocked.
Shortly thereafter the Chinese announced a sweep to clean up the mess and lo and behold the blocking stopped.
Earlier this year China announced a plan to introduce new laws to deal with the problem of using Chinese based servers to send unsolicited bulk email.
Why will prosecutions by DOJ of American citizens have a bearing on activities in China or Brazil for example?
If the US is prepared to throw its own citizens in jail for sending the stuff and the prosecutions can be made to stick, given all of the safeguards available to US citizens, what is to prevent a nation state like China with minimal regard for civil liberties from following suit?
And if not, what is prevent US ISP's from simply again blocking all Chinese traffic routed through US servers?
While all this is very fascinating, the cut-off date for comment to the Commission on a registry system expired on March 31, 2004.
This just means the battle ground as to whether the Commission will implment a registry system now moves from the Commission to Congress, with the report to be prepared by the Commission and submitted to Congress to be one factor, although likely the key factor, in the decision making process.
As an aside, in my view, for what it is worth, the do not email registry concept (involving at least the registry of email addresses) has joined the ranks of the walking dead, although a domain registry system has legs.
And, Wednesday at mid-night EDT, was the cut-off date for filing preliminary comments with the Commission on the rule making process.
The Commission will now take these comments into consideration as it moves forward in writing the rules to implement the CAN-SPAM Act.
We will likely see a draft set of rules some time in the late spring, early summer at which time there will be another round of comments, before the rules are finally implemented, likely sometime in August.
(Although we could all be surprised. The Commission is moving fairly quickly on this whole process.)
Of course, if people from outside of the US don't want to participate in the process, either directly or indirectly, hey, all power to you.
But, don't come back and complain about US arrogance, when the Commission writes rules which end up shutting down your business, simply because the Commission was not made aware and therefore could not respond to your concerns.
John Glube
Toronto, Canada
http://www.learnsteps4profit.com |
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mdr02125
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 146
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:33 am
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Guest wrote:
| Quote: | Of course not, and, newsflash for everyone, it will never pass.
So, I guess we can add tons more wasted bandwidth used on this discussion to go along with that wasted by spam. |
Guest, it would help if you read this "spam" thread and related links or did some outside research before taking everyone's time to say it will never pass. It already has.
Public Law No: 108-187. Or S. 877, aka "CAN-SPAM Act of 2003" was passed by the Senate on November 25, 2003 and the House of Representatives on December 8, 2003. The bill was signed by the President on December 16, 2003, and took effect on January 1, 2004.
Adam Murray wrote:
| Quote: | | Did they finally pass the new law? What happend? |
Adam, As I understand it, the present question is how the government agency responsible for enforcement will interpret the law that went into effect on Jan 1, 2004. As often happens the law was written unclearly (by intention or oversight) and or the agency wants to enforce it differently (more strictly or unfairly) than the legislature intended. April 20 was the deadline for public comment on proposed regulations that would interpet the law. What made this so critical is that after this the main real chance for change is through the courts--a very costly alternative for all involved.
Mark _________________ New England gardening with roses |
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John Glube
Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 28
Location: Toronto, Canada
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 11:14 am
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| mdr02125 wrote: | | April 20 was the deadline for public comment on proposed regulations that would interpet the law. What made this so critical is that after this the main real chance for change is through the courts--a very costly alternative for all involved. |
Mark
Two points of clarification.
* To my understanding there are two stages to the public comment process when a regulatory agency is obliged to write rules to implement US federal legislation.
In the first instance, the regulatory agency will ask "stakeholders" for input on what the rules should say.
The agency will then take these comments into consideration as it writes the draft rules.
The draft rules are then issued and there is a second round of public comment.
The agency then reviews these comments and issues the rules.
At that stage the administrative review process kicks in, which can involve court proceedings and the like.
All this being said, the comment process we just went through was the most important. Why? It is our formal opportunity to help shape the rules before they are written.
Once the draft rules are written, the scope for realistic comment becomes much narrower.
Unless the agency makes a complete balls of the process and writes a set of rules which are completely out to lunch, you are into nit picking comments as oppossed to fundamental issues.
* One other point. The Act gives recipients of email advertisements the right to opt-out from receiving further advertisements from that advertiser. In turn this created an obligation on e-mailers to check the do not email lists of advertisers before sending out commercial email to their lists.
In my view from the affiliate marketers perspective the issue is whether the Commission is prepared to exempt e-publications by writing the rules so that issues of e-publications are not commercial electronic mail messages but transactional or relationship messages.
At the end of the day, I believe an e-publication will likely mean a content based publication, free or paid, where:
* the publication is solicited by the recipient, meaning the recipient has prior notice of the nature of the content before subscribing (including whether there is advertising);
* the publisher gives a pledge to hold the subscribers contact information in confidence, even after the subscriber unsubscribes; and
* the mailing list is otherwise managed in accordance with good practice as stipulated at a minimum in accordance with RFC 3098.
(If people are not familiar with RFC 3098, please read The FTC Wants To Hear From You.)
To put it simply, should an exemption be created, it will be very narrow in scope.
For example, even within this potential exemption, there is a significant question in my mind as to whether any exemption will or will not cover solo advertisements sent by e-publishers.
All this being said, people must understand:
* Any exemption granted is at the discretion of the Commission;
* The case had to be strongly put; and
* It ain't over till its over.
Kind regards,
John Glube
Toronto, Canada
http://www.learnsteps4profit.com
(Edited after the initial post.) |
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mdr02125
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 146
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 1:53 pm
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John,
Thanks for the extensive clarification. The point I was trying to make was that, in fact, it has been passed into law, and therefore the comment period(s) is (was) even more important. This is not just general comments before the legislature has hearings or debates the matter before drafting legislation.
Mark _________________ New England gardening with roses |
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John Glube
Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 28
Location: Toronto, Canada
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:14 pm
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Mark,
You are welcome.
Folks, the point Mark made is fundamental and it is worth repeating:
| Quote: | | the law has been passed by Congress and therefore the comment period(s) is (was) even more important. This is not just general comments before the legislature has hearings or debates on the matter before drafting legislation. |
John
http://www.learnsteps4profit.com |
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