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Phil CA
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Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:02 pm
Post subject: Interesting! PayPal freezing 2-tier affiliate programs...
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Hi all,
Have you heard the latest buzz in the internet marketing community about PayPal's latest way to freeze accounts...
PayPal freezing affiliates...
Apparently, programs with 2-tier affiliate programs are considered MLM and that violates PayPal's terms of service.
I know Allan doesn't allow any discussions on MLM But I thought some might be interested that a 2-tier affiliate program could be Viewed in that way. 
All the best
Phil |
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AllanGardyne
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Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2004 10:09 pm
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Sounds fascinating. Can you give us a link to read about this?
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Allan Gardyne
AssociatePrograms.com - You're here. Explore it! |
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Phil CA
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Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:09 am
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Hi Allan,
Unfortunately, I didn't keep the link and didn't post it as I know how you feel about MLM. But I felt it was an interesting topic. 
I received a short note from Markus Allen who you have recommended so I hope I can trust the information he sends out. 
His basic message was...
Have you heard the latest buzz in the internet marketing community about PayPal's latest way to freeze accounts...
PayPal freezing affiliates...
Apparently, programs with 2-tier affiliate programs are considered MLM and that violates PayPal's terms of service
He noted that he was Removing his 2 tier from PayPal and that he was mostly using it for added links in the search engines or something like that so the 2 tier wasn't a big deal to him.
He was also offering a conference call on a few different issues including on PayPAL if anyone was interested.
Hope we can trust information when it comes from quality resources.
All the best
Phil |
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AllanGardyne
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Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:35 am
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Are two-tier programs really multi-level marketing?
Ages ago I got a multi-level marketing specialist to answer that
question for me. Here's his verdict:
http://www.associateprograms.com/search/newsletter048.shtml
We don't discuss specific MLM programs here because this message board has a niche - affiliate programs, not MLM programs.
_________________
Allan Gardyne
AssociatePrograms.com - You're here. Explore it! |
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Phil CA
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Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 1:39 am
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Very interesting article. I remember that newsletter. Now, we even have adsense picking up on certain words.
This is a good example to show how when information is emailed out to subscribers and posted on forums that lots of interesting things can happen.
So, Is this PayPal information really true 
I can appreciate certain things not being discussed But sometimes it can make a very interesting discussion and effect on some niche businesses.
Just my thoughts
All the best
Phil |
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Bobby
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Bobby
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 1:22 am
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PayPal's feature for sending payments to affiliates is called "Mass Payments" I went to PayPal and read through the information on Mass Payments and didn't see any mention of this 2-tier/MLM thing. That doesn't mean it's not there, just that I didn't see it.
I also read their Acceptable Use section of the User Agreement. It was last updated in October, 2003. You can read for yourself that it excludes MLM programs but doesn't seem to define them - http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/use/index_frame-outside&ed=rich_quick
Bobby |
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Bobby
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 1:27 am
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Clarification: The link I previously posted concerning Acceptable Use and MLM addressed receiving payments. For example, if you were operating a MLM program and wanted to use PayPal to accept monthly payments from your organization, that would be an unacceptable use.
The Mass Pay feature concerns sending payment to a lot of people at once - sending monthly affiliate checks to your affiliates for example. PayPal mentions the following as uses for the Mass Pay feature:
It's perfect for paying:
affiliate commissions
customer rebates
pay-to-surf rewards
employee benefits
lottery prizes
survey incentives
It would be interesting indeed if PayPal allowed a user to send payments to lottery winners but not to 2-tier affiliates.
Bobby |
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Phil CA
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 2:29 am
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Bobby,
Thanks for adding your posts to this PayPal thread.
Some marketing guys like to put out information that's not always totally accurate.
Creates a stir and serves as an interesting marketing tactic for debate.
All the best
Phil |
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Bobby
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 3:38 am
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I've received some good information via Markus, but I've also received some bogus information.
I've read inaccurate comments about PayPal on another matter, and then there is the AdSense comments I linked above. I don't think it is intentional, I just think he represents things as being factual (when it's not factual) just out of ignorance of the subject.
Bobby |
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Phil CA
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calvin69
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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:33 pm
Post subject: Paypal frozen
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| Bobby wrote: | I've received some good information via Markus, but I've also received some bogus information.
I've read inaccurate comments about PayPal on another matter, and then there is the AdSense comments I linked above. I don't think it is intentional, I just think he represents things as being factual (when it's not factual) just out of ignorance of the subject.
Bobby |
Hi Bobby,
Yes, I'm ignorant on lots of stuff... that's why I put out a newsletter every day... have done so since December of 1997... it's a great way to stay sharp.
But while I do make a ton of mistakes (and admit to them), what I said at the time was true... Google eventually made changes.
While I love Google most of the time, they're not as clear as they could be on their policies. I was ultimately approved for AdSense, but dropped it because SearchFeed's pay per click affiliate program is flat out easier to use, more responsive to my questions, and yes... more profitable (on average).
I mean what's up with the secrecy of Google not allowing us to share results... that's just weird... almost sounds like some wacky marketing strategy... and because of that, I can't recommend it.
And get this... one member of my marketing co-op legally (and quickly) generated over $5,000.00 in AdSense profits... only to get his account turned off -- they claimed fraudulent clicks... I doubt that, but even if that's true... Google seems to encourage fraudelent clicks.
Wow... I'm drifting off topic... a quick explanation (and proof).
For example (and another reason I like SearchFeed), there's software that automatically uses "open proxies" to click, click, click ads on your site. There's even some off shore service that employ thousands of low-wage employees to do the same (without being accused of computer generated clicks).
SearchFeed won't display ads from clicks passing through "Open proxies"... but Google does allow it... thus, it's possible to see fraudulent clicks. While I can't prove it, I'd bet Google is fully aware of the open proxy issue, but closing that loop will slash revenues.
And the only time it's an issue is when an advertiser complains... and that's why my co-op member is probably out the $5,000.00+. Why is this his problem?
Check it out for yourself... I could be wrong... use http://anonymizer.com/index.cgi (be patient... it's very slow today) and search a Web page featuring Google AdSense (the ads still display) and then check a SearchFeed's affiliate page (the ads DON'T) display.
Again, things change quickly... by the time you read this, Google might blow ad displayed from open proxy servers... and that would be a good thing for its advertisers (like me).
Back to the PayPal issue... I'd bet Visa and Mastercard® is the real reason why PayPal is getting tough on politically incorrect businesses... lumping MLM in the same "boat" as 2-tier affilaite programs. And talk about fraud... Visa and Mastercard, just like Google, loves fraud. They get chargeback fees everytime there's fraud... and they never lose... they rip the entire purcharse price out of the merchant's account in the snap of a finger AND charge the merchant over $30.00 at the same time. And like idiots, we continue to chalk it up as the cost of doing business.
Agree? Disagree?
Markus Allen
Publisher
$10,000 Marketing Tip of the Day |
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Bobby
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AllanGardyne
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Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:55 am
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Wrong? Who, me 
No doubt I'm wrong about lots of things. That's why I try to stick to writing about things I've personally experienced.
If you mean about there not being a $150 cap on AdSense earnings, all I can say is that I've earned more than $150 a day from one of my AdSense accounts without making any special arrangements with AdSense.
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Allan Gardyne
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Bobby
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Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:03 pm
Post subject:
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| AllanGardyne wrote: | | Wrong? Who, me |
Allan.
Sometimes in writing, it's difficult to portray the tone or context of a post.
My comment about you being wrong was intended as sarcasm. I do not think you were wrong, I think you were (and are now ) correct.
edosan confirmed your comment about there not being a $150 daily cap on earnings in the post just after yours in that old thread from August of last year.
At that time, I had not earned $150 in a single day, but I had read extensively about AdSense on the AdSense terms/FAQ pages and on several message boards. I didn't read of a daily cap.
To this day, I've only read of one reference of there being a $150 daily cap. If there was such a cap, it's certainly been a well kept secret.
I also agree with your other statement in that August thread when you wrote, "Some weird ideas get spread on the Net."
Just this week, after Google announced they were launching Gmail and content targeted ads would appear in the email messages, a person who has a large mailing list and is somewhat well known in the Internet community sent out a warning to his subscribers.
In his message, he claimed that if a web designer, for example, communicated with a client by Gmail, ads for competing web designers would appear in the messages. That's a misleading comment, as the ads in any particular message would depend on the content of that message - just like the content of a page determines AdSense ads that are displayed on that page.
If the two were discussing a proposed site about sports, ads about sports might be displayed, depending on the exact wording of the messages.
There is a nationally syndicated radio talk show host here in the U.S. who oftens tells his listeners not to repeat anything they hear on his show unless they can verify it independently. I think that's a good policy for things read on the WWW and in email messages also.
Bobby |
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