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Larry Chamberlain
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01 Aug 2003
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1184
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London, England
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Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 1:45 pm
Post subject: 'What would you do?'
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Hi Folks,
This is one of those 'What would you do?' questions.
I've got a problem involving a Mega size company we all know and love. Best not to say who, but give me a G, give me an O, give me another O... 
I emailed them suggesting a way they could help me with the prob. I must emphasize they have done nothing 'wrong' just could have organized things a bit better (IMHO)
The reply that I got back was sympathetic, but less than helpful (again IMHO). So I emailed back wording my request a little differently and emphasizing the importance to the little guy, like me and 10.000 others.
To this I received a copy 'n paste reply that was more or less 'that's the way it is, and that's the end of it."
I'd made more or less the self same request to SiteSell.com and Calendars.com, and received really helpful co-operation freely given, problem solved  Also to one other company who have yet to reply.
Now do I try and take it to the top with the above unmentioned co.? Dig my heels in and not take no for an answer? In this instance, I can't say that I'd have nothing to lose by upsetting them, anyone doing business on the 'net would.
So, any advice as to "What would you do" will be most welcome.
All the best,
Larry Chamberlain.
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Why Do Most Affiliates Make Less Than $500 Per Month?
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esteneker
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Larry Chamberlain
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Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:43 pm
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Hi Erwin,
Well... I wasn't going to say, but how can I refuse the Godfather of Customer Service when I'm asking for help on a customer service matter
Basically, I want to return a check to them. I might be wrong, but as I remember when I signed up to their program their minimum payout was $100 full stop. Then they brought in that end of year payments would be sent no matter what the balance.
Problem is that as any 'foreign' affiliate knows cashing (or banking ) dollar checks is murderously expensive. (I've ranted elsewhere in this forum about it)
When the check is for a small amount then the charge can even eat the check! So I ask them if I could return the check and if they could add the amount to my next payout.
Seems that this is not possible for them to do, and yet as I mentioned above two other companies have been most helpful.
Maybe I'm just an ol' skinflint, but I see no sense in battling to earn a few bob and then give it away in bank charges.
All the best,
Larry Chamberlain.
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edburdo
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esteneker
Joined:
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The Netherlands
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Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:47 pm
Post subject:
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Hi Larry,
| Larry wrote: | | Well... I wasn't going to say, but how can I refuse the Godfather of Customer Service |
LOL 
| Larry wrote: | | Basically, I want to return a check to them. I might be wrong, but as I remember when I signed up to their program their minimum payout was $100 full stop. Then they brought in that end of year payments would be sent no matter what the balance. |
First of all, haven't you heard about the possibility to hold payment? This is the info I got from Google:
| Google team wrote: | Hello AdSense Publisher,
Google AdSense would like to inform you that we will be making
year-end earnings payments for all open AdSense accounts. You
will receive a check in U.S. Dollars (USD) for your unpaid earnings
(regardless of amount) through December 31, 2003, unless you
would like us to hold your payment until a future date.
If you do not wish to receive a USD check for your year-end balance,
simply send an email to adsense-support@google.com with your
request for us to hold the payment. In order to place a hold on your
payment, we must receive your request by January 10, 2004.
If you would like us to hold your payments for subsequent months,
please send us a request by the 10th of the month following each
month for which you would like your payment to be held. For example,
to have us hold your January earnings, email us by February 10th. You
may also specify a month range, but we are unable to accept other
special hold requests. We hope to offer you more control over your
payment schedule and method in the future.
Please email us at adsense-support@google.com with any questions
about your account or placing your AdSense payments on hold.
Sincerely,
The Google Team
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You can use this to hold payment until the check reaches a figure you like. This is most helpful for us at this side of the ocean. You need to request the payment hold every month, but it is helpful to say the least.
OK, aside from this possibility, I would advice you to let it go.
In defense of Google, I believe they do understand the issue at hand, otherwise they wouldn't offer the "hold payment" possibility. Also, can you expect them to resolve this issue for you? The cost of taking back a check + handling it administratively could easily be > $100. And they have many, many Adsense publishers...
If I were in their shoes I wouldn't open that door. However, I would explain exactly why the request is refused. Google support cannot expect their partners to understand this if they aren't forthcoming with the info.
Anyway, now you know how you can hold payment to build bigger checks! 
Hope this helps.
Best regards,
Erwin
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thepoolroom
Joined:
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Australia
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Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:16 pm
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I also got that email, telling me they'd be sending me a cheque at year-end unless I specifically requested otherwise. Since it costs me a lot to bank US cheques and I hadn't earned much at that stage, I followed the instructions and asked them to hold it. They did.
Did you get such an email? Did you follow the instructions to have the payment witheld? If not, I really don't think you can do much about it.
From a pragmatic point of view, it's probably best to just chalk this one up to experience. Instead of spending time trying to make a one-off saving of a few dollars, spend that time working on getting traffic to your site. The extra traffic will give you a few extra dollars every month for a long time.
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Jewel
Joined:
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267
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Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2004 12:14 am
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Larry,
Here's an alternative solution . . . don't cash the check if the fees cost more than you earned. Instead, frame the check neatly and hang it near your computer the way some brick-and-mortar businesses frame their first dollar earned. Or better yet, find a suitable cat poster and attach the check so it looks like the cat's holding it. It will be a conversation piece!
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Larry Chamberlain
Joined:
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1184
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London, England
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Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2004 7:43 am
Post subject:
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Hi Alf,
| Quote: | | First of all, haven't you heard about the possibility to hold payment? This is the info I got from Google: |
No I don't think I got that, or did I? 
| Quote: | OK, aside from this possibility, I would advice you to let it go.
In defense of Google, I believe they do understand the issue at hand, otherwise they wouldn't offer the "hold payment" possibility. Also, can you expect them to resolve this issue for you? The cost of taking back a check + handling it administratively could easily be > $100. And they have many, many Adsense publishers... |
It certainly will solve the problem in the future ( hopefully, it won't happen again 'cause I'll be earning big bucks!)
$100 Hmm, if it cost that much, then I owe a big debt to the other two companies who took the checks back.
| Quote: | | From a pragmatic point of view, it's probably best to just chalk this one up to experience. Instead of spending time trying to make a one-off saving of a few dollars, spend that time working on getting traffic to your site. The extra traffic will give you a few extra dollars every month for a long time. |
Hi Poolroom,
Yep, you're probably right.
| Quote: | | Instead, frame the check neatly and hang it near your computer the way some brick-and-mortar businesses frame their first dollar earned. Or better yet, find a suitable cat poster and attach the check so it looks like the cat's holding it. It will be a conversation piece! |
Hi Jewel,
Hee hee, I like that. Or alternatively I could find a charity to donate it to, I think banks give either free or low charges to charities.
Thank you all for your advice and opinions, looks like I was in the wrong mindset on this one, I will as suggested chalk it up to experience.
Hey! This board rocks baby
All the best,
Larry Chamberlain.
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mdr02125
Joined:
13 Jan 2004
Posts:
146
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:05 am
Post subject:
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| Quote: | | No I don't think I got that, or did I? |
Larry, If you honestly do not believe you received that email about how to hold the payment, I would persist with insisting they take it back. YOu will probably have to go to higher levels of managment. Calling them may be the only way but this may cost you from overseas so you have to decide how much is it worth to you?
You could also submit a complaint with the Better Business Bureau in their area. go to www.bbb.org and click file a complaint > Business > follow prompts and select "business" as type of complaint even though it mentions that option is for if you bought something from them.
Companies that value customer service take such complaints seriously (even if they do not have legal weight) and usually responses are more personalized and have more thought put into them, from someone who is higher up, not on the front line just clicking away at "generic response #17" Also, for small things, companies will often just do as you ask since it takes them less effort than to write up their reasons why you are wrong.
Other companies just ignore the BBB, no matter what. Google's review at BBB.org indicates they do respond to inquires.
That is a free option. Your options from overseas for sending a signature required letter to the president, etc. are limited. DHL or Federal Express probably cost $20 USD ...
| Quote: | OK, aside from this possibility, I would advice you to let it go.
In defense of Google, I believe they do understand the issue at hand, otherwise they wouldn't offer the "hold payment" possibility. Also, can you expect them to resolve this issue for you? The cost of taking back a check + handling it administratively could easily be > $100. And they have many, many Adsense publishers |
| Quote: | | $100 Hmm, if it cost that much, then I owe a big debt to the other two companies who took the checks back. |
I really don't see that it is is anywhere near a $100 expense to Google to fix this. Assuming you either (a) did not receive the email instructions on how to hold back the $100 or were led to believe this was done automatically for overseas afilliates or (b) you did put that request in the system and they still sent the check --> then they should have procedures in place to correct such errors, and if they don't then they should use your case as an opportunity to do so. A business with a commitment to quality and customer service would be thankful for the chance to fix their procedures.
Unfortunately the people on the front line do not usually understand this, even in the best organizations, and the people who do are usually shielded from getting the complaints. In part becaue people who read that they should have entered their request in the system did not bother to and now are clogging up the mailbox screaming tohave Google fix their lack of action.
Of course then there are big organizations that are bureaucratic and dysfunctional. The people at all levels think they are committed to quality, and continuous improvement, etc. but .... that doesn't come out in their actions. ONe tends to see this in big government agencies for example.
OK, sorry to get carried away. Since in my day job I do assessments of the quality of customer service levels and training on customer service this got me going 
Mark
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Larry Chamberlain
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 12:26 pm
Post subject:
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Hi Mark,
| Quote: | | Larry, If you honestly do not believe you received that email about how to hold the payment, I would persist with insisting they take it back. YOu will probably have to go to higher levels of managment. Calling them may be the only way but this may cost you from overseas so you have to decide how much is it worth to you? |
Trouble is I can't be sure that I didn't receive it. When I read it in Erwin's reply it did seem familiar.
Normally with things like this I stamp my foot and cause agro until things are sorted, but in this case I think I'll stick by putting it down to experience.
I do wish they hadn't of changed things amid stream, but some of the fault here could be mine, and my time would probably be better spent on my business.
All the best,
Larry Chamberlain.
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esteneker
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 1:28 pm
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Hi Mark,
Interesting post...
| Charlie wrote: | | "If two of us agree, one of us is unnecessary." |
OK, in true spirit of Charlie, I respectfully want to bring up a different opinion to some of your remarks...
| Mark wrote: | | I really don't see that it is is anywhere near a $100 expense to Google to fix this. |
In the past I have investigated the cost of correcting errors (in order to convince organizations to do it right the first time), and I actually found figures in that order (at first I didn't believe it also, but it all adds up very quickly). I don't say you're wrong though, as I haven't investigated what it would cost Google exactly...
| Mark wrote: | | A business with a commitment to quality and customer service would be thankful for the chance to fix their procedures. |
In any business the risk of not providing a service must be weighed against the cost of providing the service.
As a business, you may decide to not provide the service, if the risk this brings (translated into $$$) is much lower than the cost of the service.
For example, if a service costs a million bucks a year, and the risk of not providing the service translates to the loss of $100,000 of lifetime earnings, it would be a good business decision to not provide that service.
(The caveat, of course, is that it is not easy to 100% determine the total costs pertaining a risk)
Certain companies (Budget airlines come to mind) have decided not to deliver any customer service  to maximize cost reduction, which in turn is translated into low prices. As long as they are upfront with this, I have absolutely no problems with this approach. In fact, being upfront is in a way a good method to reduce the risk of complaining customers.
| Mark wrote: | | The people at all levels think they are committed to quality, and continuous improvement, etc. but .... that doesn't come out in their actions. |
As always, action speaks louder than words! Measuring actions vs. believing statements is important in any quality assessment. Well said!
| Mark wrote: | | OK, sorry to get carried away. Since in my day job I do assessments of the quality of customer service levels and training on customer service this got me going |
Me too! Customer Service rules!!!
Warm regards,
Erwin.
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mdr02125
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 3:45 pm
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Erwin,
I have done a lot of workflow analysis so I understand your points, and don't completely disagree. I was coming from the angle of an organization committed to continuous improvement, where the only cost directly tied to receiving his check back and crediting his account is, possibly, the programmer has not set up a function for bookkeeping to do this automatically, so would have to do edit a table manually. And the bookkeeper credits the check, no stop-check fee with the bank.
I also understand that unlike Larry, many are not interested in doing the right thing, hence the organization has to assume that a certain percentage of those who jump through the hoops actually know they received the message with instructions but did not act on it and have no qualms about lying. An unfortunate fact of the world we live in.
Of course when you are an affiliate, and not a customer that changes the rules, some, too. It is easier to say "we sent the email and it is not our responsibiilty if you didn't receive it" to a customer than an affiliate. Most companies try to slow their payables to stretch cash flow anyhow.
A smaller organization like Sitesell can often be more nimble. The bookkeeper and programmer may even sit in the next office, so it might get fixed without the boss even knowing. In a large organization there are more inefficiencies--these functions may be in different cities, or at least on different floors--leading to a series of emails and phone calls back and forth "what exactly is it you want me to do? Won't that interfere with the bank?" "No I told you ...." "Did Ms. Big Wig approve it?" "Yes, I told you Ms. Big Wig's Boss approved it" "But you know Mr. Big Wig won't like it." "I don't think she'll mind." which obviously could take as many as ten times the amount of time, thus drives up the cost.
Of course the whole issue of cost vs. benefit of providing a service usually is done withotu considering any ethical issues. Yes, it is one thing to say "we are not going to give you great service so we can give you a great price. And if we do mess up super bad even that will take us extra time to fix." Quite another to mislead with "great service" "best service in the industry" slogans and then behave the same, which is so common. But I digress....
Mark
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Daryl Barnes
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 10:08 pm
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In my honest opinion, since the terms clearly state that is the way they handle checks then there really is no sense in complaining to terms you agreed to in the first place. I thought it was great for them to offer the option to hold checks if you request it. If you don't request it, it really isn't fair to complain to the BBB as one poster stated.
Besides, can you even complain to the Better Business Burea for someone SENDING you money? I thought they were there to police companies TAKING your money!
Seriously though, complaining to the BBB would be seriously over the top.
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Randy West
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 10:18 pm
Post subject: Think Big Larry
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Larry,
Donald Trump says he got rich by thinking BIG. You on the other hand are not thinking BIG by worrying and fussing about your less than $100 check.
Anyway lets hope your next Xmas Google check is over 100 good ole US dollars.
cheers matey
Randy |
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