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godavego
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Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 8:42 pm
Post subject: Google Hates Me. Yahoo Loves Me.
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In the last week my ranking in Google for key word phrases
which use to be in the top 10 have all dropped to 30, 40 or
even off the chart on every page on my website.
At the same time my traffic from Yahoo and MSN has gone
through the roof. The problem is Inktomi has only listed
my home page so far.
So my questions are:
1. Did Google make a major change last weekend?
Have some of you experienced the same thing?
How can I get my Google traffic back?
2. ALL of my key words that dropped in Google are
in the top 10 in Yahoo, some are even number 1.
Why has this happened?
How can I get Inktomi to list the rest of my pages?
Should I submit them to Yahoo or Ink?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Dave
www.play-the-game-of-poker.com
Learn to play Poker for fun or profit. |
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Debs
Joined:
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4296
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NY
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Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Google Hates Me. Yahoo Loves Me.
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| godavego wrote: | In the last week my ranking in Google for key word phrases
which use to be in the top 10 have all dropped to 30, 40 or
even off the chart on every page on my website.
At the same time my traffic from Yahoo and MSN has gone
through the roof. The problem is Inktomi has only listed
my home page so far.
So my questions are:
1. Did Google make a major change last weekend?
Have some of you experienced the same thing?
How can I get my Google traffic back? |
yes, major changes have been occurring in Google over the last few months, last weekend was no exception.
Build more pages and experiment with various SEO options if you want. Expect some pages to do well in Google and others to do well in Yahoo, etc. You can't do well in all SE's for the same page since their algos are all different, so don't try.
Always work on getting more links in.
| Quote: | 2. ALL of my key words that dropped in Google are
in the top 10 in Yahoo, some are even number 1.
Why has this happened?
How can I get Inktomi to list the rest of my pages?
Should I submit them to Yahoo or Ink?
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See above for the first couple questions.
Leave Inktomi alone for now. There are some threads here on Ink posted by Sean Burns, I recommend you find them and review. If you haven't signed up for Sean's newsletter, do so. It's very important in keeping up with the SE flux that is such a big part of SEO right now.
You should submit your main url to Yahoo's free spider, otherwise, just relax, build more pages, experiment with density, heading tags, page length, etc. and you should find you will have good rankings across all SE's, but for different pages.
Debs
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Learn how to turn keyphrases into quality, well-targeted articles your visitors and SE's will love with Gary Antosh's new ebook "Web Content Made Easy!"
Last edited by Debs on Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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esteneker
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258
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Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:41 pm
Post subject: I've been OOP-ed
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All,
The exact same thing happened to me. Google has OOP-ed me (given me an over-optimization penalty), so for most of my keywords I'm now "Site non-grata". Yahoo is still going strong.
I've been experimenting a little, and found that for all un-OOP-ed sites for my keywords the pages have no headline or a headline which didn't have the exact keywords in it.
Knowing this has not made a difference though.  My pages are still dropped in spite my experimenting and testing.
I have left this path now, not knowing what to do to make Google drop the OOP.
I decided that I can better spend my time getting more incoming links and more content... hoping that Google will love me again one day. All my pages have been re-analyzed through SBI!'s Analyze-it, and are already severly toned down.
However, I'm still puzzled by how to best attack the links these days. In pre-Austin the best tactic (I think) was to link with the exact keyword in the link (if at all possible). I believe that Google now frowns on pages that have the exact keyword in the incoming links. (sigh)
Any thoughts anyne on the incoming links text, and how best to approach it these days?
Thanks,
Erwin.
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Larry Chamberlain
Joined:
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1184
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London, England
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 7:47 am
Post subject:
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Hi Erwin,
| Quote: | | I've been experimenting a little, and found that for all un-OOP-ed sites for my keywords the pages have no headline or a headline which didn't have the exact keywords in it. |
| Quote: | | However, I'm still puzzled by how to best attack the links these days. In pre-Austin the best tactic (I think) was to link with the exact keyword in the link (if at all possible). I believe that Google now frowns on pages that have the exact keyword in the incoming links. (sigh) |
I'm not saying you are wrong, but I don't find the same for the searches that I make. If you are finding this to be the case for your keywords it could be due to other factors such as 'Semantics'. I won't pretend to understand this completely, but I know a man who does  ... Sean Burns ( Boy, is Rankings Revealed THE book on search engines, or is it THE book on search engines!)
True that Google is clamping down on over optimization, but would it make sense for them to penalize you for incoming links containing your keywords? After all, if I want to send visitors to your site I'm bound to use say 'customer service', it would help no one to use say 'fried fish'
All the best,
Larry Chamberlain.
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esteneker
Joined:
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258
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 8:24 am
Post subject:
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Hi Larry,
| Larry wrote: | | Boy, is Rankings Revealed THE book on search engines, or is it THE book on search engines!) |
I bought this book already. couldn't agree more!
| Larry wrote: | | I'm not saying you are wrong, but I don't find the same for the searches that I make. If you are finding this to be the case for your keywords it could be due to other factors such as 'Semantics'. |
I think I already tried to vary the terms already, such as "great customer support" vs. "good customer service" etc.
| Larry wrote: | | True that Google is clamping down on over optimization, but would it make sense for them to penalize you for incoming links containing your keywords? After all, if I want to send visitors to your site I'm bound to use say 'customer service', it would help no one to use say 'fried fish' |
You're right, of course, but my example would be like this: if "good customer service" is my preferred keyword, which text would be more likeable by Google et al: "good customer service" or "customer service is good for business" or "good customer support" or ...
Oh well. At one time I vowed not to "dance with Google", but that was before all my rankings were destroyed! Flesh is weak. 
Warm regards,
Erwin.
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Niall Kennedy
Joined:
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Posts:
76
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Glasgow, UK
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:35 am
Post subject:
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| esteneker wrote: | | Google has OOP-ed me (given me an over-optimization penalty) |
How do you know that you have been penalised?
Over the last 4 months or so one of my sites has been up and down in Google's rankings. I thought it had been penalised for optimisation, as it followed slavishly a pattern in the placement of keywords in every element possible.
I diluted slightly the keyword density in the title tag, and that coincided with an improvement in the SERPs.
However, I'd prefer to put that down to Google continuing to change the way they are rating pages.
In the future for this site I'm shaking up my keyword placement so that all pages are not following the same pattern. That way if Google decide they don't like one page, they hopefully will appreciate other ones.
| esteneker wrote: | | I believe that Google now frowns on pages that have the exact keyword in the incoming links. |
I think Google has been re-evaluting the part that linking contributes to its algorithm, with less credit to artificial-looking links. An example may include large percentages of links with the same anchor text, so if you ask all your link partners to link with the same text, this may set a flag for Google.
Solution - shake up the anchor text you ask partners to use - give them a few alternatives, or let them choose the text themselves - a more natural linking process.
| esteneker wrote: | | However, I'm still puzzled by how to best attack the links these days. |
I reckon the best way to approach links these days is to make sure they are done for the benefit of your human visitors, so as on-topic as possible. This also appears to suit the way that Google assesses your site for relevance to particular topics.
| esteneker wrote: | | I decided that I can better spend my time getting more incoming links and more content |
Keep us up-to-date with the success of this approach.
Cheers
Niall |
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esteneker
Joined:
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:56 am
Post subject:
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| Nial wrote: | | esteneker wrote: | | Google has OOP-ed me (given me an over-optimization penalty) |
How do you know that you have been penalised? |
I think I am, because when I use the allintext: parameter, my site appears + other penalized sites, on the spots they were before the shakedown. If you scratch those sites, the list looks like the normal list. Check out "good customer service" vs. "allintext: good customer service". This looks look a penalty to me (or am I barking up the wrong tree here?).
| Nial wrote: | Over the last 4 months or so one of my sites has been up and down in Google's rankings. I thought it had been penalised for optimisation, as it followed slavishly a pattern in the placement of keywords in every element possible.
I diluted slightly the keyword density in the title tag, and that coincided with an improvement in the SERPs.
However, I'd prefer to put that down to Google continuing to change the way they are rating pages. |
The keywords on my site don't follow a pattern, other than the recommendations made by Site Build It's Analyze tool.
| Nial wrote: | | In the future for this site I'm shaking up my keyword placement so that all pages are not following the same pattern. That way if Google decide they don't like one page, they hopefully will appreciate other ones. |
That's good advice. Thanks.
All the best,
Erwin.
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Niall Kennedy
Joined:
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76
Location:
Glasgow, UK
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 11:12 am
Post subject:
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| Erwin wrote: | | when I use the allintext: parameter |
I've never used allintext, but I'm intrigued to learn more... Could it be that that operator limits searches to on-page elements?
| Erwin wrote: | | The keywords on my site don't follow a pattern, other than the recommendations made by Site Build It's Analyze tool. |
I don't know the specifics of SBI's Analyze tool, but doesn't it set down a specific pattern, ie number of words/keywords in the Title tag, headings tag etc?
Following that would create a uniform pattern on your pages.
Again I'm interested to learn more...
Cheers
Niall |
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esteneker
Joined:
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 4:29 pm
Post subject:
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hi Niall,
| Niall wrote: | | 've never used allintext, but I'm intrigued to learn more... Could it be that that operator limits searches to on-page elements? |
I think you are right. I've read on several places that it could be used to eliminate the penalty, effectively showing "pre-Austin" results for comparison. I believe this to be similar to the "-blablanonsense" addition that no longer seems to have this recovery effect any more.
| Niall wrote: | don't know the specifics of SBI's Analyze tool, but doesn't it set down a specific pattern, ie number of words/keywords in the Title tag, headings tag etc?
Following that would create a uniform pattern on your pages. |
Yes, right once more, except for how the keyword is sprinkled within the body text. The tool makes recommendations where to add or reduce the keyword. Semantics is, IMHO, not one of its strong points.
I don't follow up on the recommendations anymore, though. Certain "errors" I now view as acceptable.
Best regards,
Erwin.
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Jewel
Joined:
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Posts:
267
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:07 pm
Post subject:
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| Niall Kennedy wrote: | | Solution - shake up the anchor text you ask partners to use - give them a few alternatives, or let them choose the text themselves - a more natural linking process. |
I wonder if this means that when we submit an article to several article banks, we might want to re-word the article's resource box wording and anchor text for each submission? 
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www.home-jewelry-business-success-tips.com |
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Larry Chamberlain
Joined:
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:15 pm
Post subject:
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Hi again Erwin,
| Quote: | Niall wrote:
don't know the specifics of SBI's Analyze tool, but doesn't it set down a specific pattern, ie number of words/keywords in the Title tag, headings tag etc?
Following that would create a uniform pattern on your pages.
Yes, right once more, except for how the keyword is sprinkled within the body text. The tool makes recommendations where to add or reduce the keyword. Semantics is, IMHO, not one of its strong points. |
Don't know if I'm misinterpreting your answer to Niall, but I'm reading it as that you are agreeing that SBI's Analyze tool ' set down a specific pattern, ie number of words/keywords in the Title tag, headings tag etc?'
Sorry to be an argumentative old bugger, but I don't agree that it does. Sure it will warn you if you don't have your keyword/phrase in your title, headline etc. but it makes no comment if you have it twice (or more?)
I agree with both of you that it is not a good idea to keep the exact same pattern for every page.
All the best,
Larry Chamberlain.
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Why Do Most Affiliates Make Less Than $500 Per Month?
Is SBI! eLearning Right For You? |
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ChristianG
Joined:
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esteneker
Joined:
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258
Location:
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Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:33 pm
Post subject:
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| ChristianG wrote: | | From the little I know, you have to be dam bad to be penalized by google. |
Thanks for the vote of confidence. 
| ChristianG wrote: | | Focus on building bigger sites and get good quality links and you should get better ranking. |
You're right about that. I'm just a little anxious that I will be building more and more penalized pages...
Best regards,
Erwin.
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