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Ken Evoy
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Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:35 pm
Post subject: Microsoft bends...
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Hi to all,
Guess what?
Microsoft called and says they've been tweaking their filters. It seems our mail is now getting through now.
Our tests confirm it, so we'll be taking down our special page that we put up after a customer with a hotmail or msn address orders Site Build It! successfully...
http://buildit.sitesell.com/success-page-MSN-hotmail.html
To answer Charlie as to whether that page was effective...
Our hotmail.com and msn.com customers were almost 100% supportive. Several said they were going to contact Microsoft and tell them why they were changing to Yahoo! One was peeved that we only told him AFTER he bought... and I don't disagree with that person. I really
hate to inconvenience our customers, but I simply was NOT going to hurt OUR business AND allow this to remain a secret, because *we* had nothing to hide.
After all, this was NOT our fault. That page does a very simple job. It explains exactly what happened and it lets the customer decide who's at fault. We were willing to run that page forever.
I highly recommend you use it should the same ever happen to you -- and this is not about Microsoft -- it's about any big company that feels it can be cavalier with both its customers and your business.
The saddest part of all this? Aside from Allan and Paul, who get it, no one else seems to care about the issue. I guess it has to happen to you, before it matters (and we can all think of, yes Charlie, all kinds of atrocities with that kind of thinking -- your analogies while way-out-there-extreme were in fact quite appropriate in terms of what can happen when folks just kind of ride along with something that's wrong).
Anyway, if and when it does happen to you, use the page above, because the folks who DO care will be your customers. And they'll complain to whoever they feel is doing THEM wrong.
This is not a victory, because it was never a fight. It's merely setting things right. 
All the best,
Ken
P.S. By the way, Charlie, MS, AOL, and Yahoo! account for 60% of all e-mail sent out from all of our SBI! sites. So yes... the danger Allan speaks of is very real. The real shame is that they don't join forces to create a non-profit standard -- spam would be over in months. But that's another story. |
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Mantius
Joined:
08 Oct 2003
Posts:
217
Location:
Saint Lucia (Caribbean)
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Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 12:10 am
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Ken, I'm happy that this problem is finally resolved. I was very upset with MS when I heard about this outrage! The future was beginning to look very gloomy. Yet still, the fact that they did what they did in the first place puts them in my bad books.
When it comes to filtering spam, I share the view that hotmail is doing a terrible job (for want of a better word). The problem is that most people don't have a clue as to the workings of the internet, they take what they get and think that hotmail is wonderful. It's usually webmasters, internet marketers and so on who really give a damn. A year ago I didn't have a clue as to the illegallity of spam or what the heck went on online.
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Ten Real World Sample Sites |
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Charlie
Joined:
22 Aug 2003
Posts:
3305
Location:
UK
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Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Microsoft bends...
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Hello again.
| Ken Evoy wrote: | Guess what?
Microsoft called and says they've been tweaking their filters. It seems our mail is getting through now. |
Great news.
| Quote: | | Our hotmail.com and msn.com customers were almost 100% supportive. |
I'm pleased they were.
| Quote: | | and this is not about Microsoft -- it's about any big company that feels it can be cavalier with both its customers and your business. |
It has to be said that size is relative...
I suspect that to many of your customers (even me), Sitesell are a distant "all powerful" corporation, even if you are not as "cavalier" with your customers.
| Quote: | | The saddest part of all this? Aside from Allan and Paul, who get it, no one else seems to care about the issue. |
I for one care about the issue - I just look at it in a different way. You have had a particular problem with MS, but the general problem of over-zealous filtering by ISPs and others still remains...
| Mantius wrote: | | When it comes to filtering spam, I share the view that hotmail is doing a terrible job (for want of a better word). The problem is that most people don't have a clue as to the workings of the internet, they take what they get and think that hotmail is wonderful. It's usually webmasters, internet marketers and so on who really give a damn. |
Bearing in mind how unaware many private email users are and how well they seemed to react in your case when the facts were made plain to them, surely the best approach is to warn people of the risks of any kind of filtering by the email handling company and teach people how to either whitelist or filter in their own client software.
Your experience and Paul's both seem to point to the fact that if people are told the facts, there is little to lose from a commercial point of view, and it is reduced to a matter of principle - should MS or whoever be able to do this, as opposed to does it cost us customers if they do.
Awareness of the problem is all that is needed.
| Ken Evoy wrote: | | Anyway, if and when it does happen to you, use the page above, because the folks who DO care will be your customers. And they'll complain to whoever they feel is doing THEM wrong. |
I wasn't planning to compete with Microsoft anytime soon, so hopefully all I've got to worry about is losing mail because recipients won't whitelist me, rather than can't.
This is where the practical problem for most people lies.. customer education.
| Quote: | | This is not a victory, because it was never a fight. It's merely setting things right. |
Sorry, I took my philosophy text book back to the library last week, so I'll have to take your word for it.  
| Quote: | | MS, AOL, and Yahoo! account for 60% of all e-mail sent out from all of our SBI! sites. So yes... the danger Allan speaks of is very real. The real shame is that they don't join forces to create a non-profit standard -- spam would be over in months. But that's another story. |
Perhaps if you take the road to customer education, the fact that the main problem is so easily attributed to so few companies is a good thing, not a bad.
All the best,
Charlie.
_________________
"Before I speak, I have something important to say."
- Groucho Marx
Last edited by Charlie on Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Larry Chamberlain
Joined:
01 Aug 2003
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1184
Location:
London, England
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Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:00 pm
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Great news.
| Quote: | | P.S. Sooner or later, someone from Microsoft will come by this forum to read this thread -- when they do, consider this my request (again) to permit our transactional e-mail to reach our mutual customers. Or provide honest answers to the above five questions. |
I wonder...
...perhaps B.G. is a lurker?
All the best,
Larry Chamberlain.
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Why Do Most Affiliates Make Less Than $500 Per Month?
Is SBI! eLearning Right For You? |
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finhawke
Joined:
04 Mar 2004
Posts:
1
Location:
USA
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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 4:01 pm
Post subject: The reality of Bonded Sender concept
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This is direct from the bonded sender website.
| Quote: | | Program is free to ISPs & companies receiving email |
Please understand the concept is for ISPs to eventually adopt and migrate towards the remarkably easy SPAM solution of rejecting all email not approved by bonded sender. This resolves all the ISPs SPAM related email problems in one fell swoop...all they have to do is add a little ditty to their terms of service that forces their email users to alllow this.
By doing this, they have effectively gained complete control of all email traffic (ie. what's deliverable and what's not).
EVEN THOUGH A USER OPTS-IN TO YOUR NEWSLETTER OR OTHER OFFERINGS ON YOUR WEBSITE, YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY TO GET PAST THE ISP/BONDED-SENDER AGREEMENT.
AT SOME POINT, IT IS REASONABLE TO EXPECT ALL EMAILS TO REQUIRE A CERTIFICATION FEE FOR ANY DELIVERY OUTSIDE OF THE ORIGINATING ISP.
This is a big business power move designed to eventually take away a large part of the free internet, and make it a "corporate owned" mail service.
I would urge all of you...if your ISP or any service provider has a hand in this...dump them. There are other service providers doing the same thing better. If your software provider is involved...trash them. Send the software back for a refund.
Use the search engines to check out open source projects. There are tons of software solutions out there from people who love the net. Ditch these "money grubbing" assholes who are constantly looking to steal some part of your life and then make you pay to get it back.
There are alternatives. For example, Open Office is the open source equivalent of Microsoft Office and then some. It is available at www.openoffice.org (free), and is a far better product (IMHO). Not only can it read and write Microsoft Office formats (Word, Excel, and Powerpoint), It can also export files in both pdf and flash formats. All yours for the price of a little download time.
Get your own house in order, take a little time to promote the web itself, and send a message to those who would make you pay for what was once yours for free.
Sorry for the rant. Especially on my first post.
Regards to all.
John Foutz
http://unseenpath.hostrocket.com/ |
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