Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 8:49 am Post subject: boring check quiery, but no reponse from sitesell nor allan
This is a very boring complaint, so only read it if you're suffering from insomnia :)
As a SiteSell affiliate - through Allan Gardyne - I have a simple payment problem to resolve (my 1st ever check from SiteSell is very late as far as I can gather). My complaint is not necessarily about the belated check - I'm sure that can be sorted out in a flash: maybe SiteSell checks normally do take 8 weeks to reach affiliates? - my problem is that I've been unable to reach any human beings, after nearly 2 weeks of trying.
Now for the really boring details:
I sent my quiery to affiliate@sitesell.com and to ken@sitesell.com. These - understandably - are autoresponders telling you to wait a couple of hours for a human response. I've now waited about 10 boring days.
I also sent the quiery to linda@sitesell.com - no response, (wo)man or machine.
Then, seeing that Allan Gardyne is my SiteSell "upline", and taking into account the probability that he may already have benefited financially from my SiteSell sales, I presumed I could ask him for assistance in contacting a human at SiteSell, so - about 7 days ago - I sent Allan an email outlining my problem, using the allan@associateprograms.com address. Disappointingly, no response either, human or otherwise.
Everyone who knows me will tell you all I'm a very patient person. So, I'm willing to wait another couple of days for anyone who can give me advice on how to contact a human at SiteSell, or how to contact Allan via email.
Otherwise I'll just go and take a nap and see if I can come up with some new angle to make this whole problem a bit more exciting.
Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 5839 Location: by the beach, Australia
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 3:06 am Post subject:
Hi cat,
Very sorry about the lack of reply from me. I didn't receive your email.
Weird things can happen with email. Sometimes it just seems to vanish into the ether with no message to tell you it hasn't been delivered. (I've just switched to a new web host so at my end I'm hoping that will happen less frequently!)
SiteSell is a very good company with good, helpful staff. I'll let them know you have a problem.
Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 5839 Location: by the beach, Australia
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 6:52 am Post subject:
Hi SpamH
I think you're just trying to wind me up, but like a mug I'll respond.
In my experience, weird things DO happen with email. Also, when you're dealing with technology with different operating systems and different software, sometimes crappy ISPs, sometimes crappy web hosts, spam filters, misconfigured filters, and often people who are just learning, there's LOTS of scope for human error and technical errors. It's easy to delete an email by mistake, for example.
(I've just switched to a new web host because I was sick of the problems I was having with my old one. At least twice my web host blamed hackers. Whether he was hacked or not I don't know, but sometimes bunches of emails were lost for several hours. So if any of you wrote to me and didn't get a reply, that's one of many possible reasons.)
It's easy to assume that something has happened, when the truth is different.
Just to make sure there's no understanding, here's how I (well, actually we) answer emails...
I don't ignore any emails complaining about SiteSell. (Such emails are rare, so they're easy to handle, anyway.) SiteSell sends me thousands of dollars in commissions every month, month after month and has done so for years. It's been at the top of my Top 10 - http://www.AssociatePrograms.com/search/favourite.shtml - for years. So it's in my best interests to answer the few rare complaints I receive, and to help smooth over any problems.
I have an assistant who answers most of my emails these days, and he understands how important SiteSell is to me.
No doubt he's capable of errors, too, and no doubt he occasionally hits the wrong button. We probably all do when we're busy. I scan every email answer he sends, but I can't monitor them if he hits the wrong button...
I've had many long phone conversations with SiteSell's founder and President, Ken Evoy. From time to time he's had to face criticism that emails are going unanswered, and I know how much he hates that. He's hired a team of people to answer emails, he monitors their work closely, and he provides a special address for people to write to him if they're not satisfied with the support they receive. That's a heck of lot more than many companies on the Internet do.
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear in the previous post. I didn't say I answer ALL emails. I do ignore a LOT of emails, and I don't mind at all saying that. That's the way I operate. I have a life. Sometimes, I'd rather go for a walk on the beach or spend time with my wife than answer emails. There's no sense in being in business if you let other people tell you how to run it, I reckon.
However, we try hard to answer all emails from affiliates requesting help.
That was one of main reasons I hired someone to help me, because I was being swamped by a daily flood, and still am. I like receiving grateful emails from people who say they've taken the trouble to hunt out my referral link when buying a product, simply because I've helped them in the past.
(I don't promise I'll continue this policy. I'm just saying that it's my present policy. It could end tomorrow, if I receive a 100 extra emails as a result of this post
The emails I tend to ignore are ones asking me to review and promote products. I receive far more of those than I can cope with.
You're right, it's not my job to act as SiteSell Support, and the company doesn't expect me to. As Ken Evoy has explained in one of his newsletters, the more prominent the person's profile, the less likely it is that you'll be able to receive a reply from them. Wherever possible, for example, if people are asking routine questions about Site Build It, we try to teach them to contact the support staff. There's a team of people ready and willing to help.
In short, I'm proud of what I do online. I like helping other people sack their bosses, or at the very least earn a little extra part-time income. _________________ Allan Gardyne
... earning a good living from affiliate programs since 1998.
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Allan, I've sent you an email with details about my SiteSell problem if you need something to forward to them. (SpamHater: I'm hopefully not implying that Allan, as my upline, is responsible for anything regarding my life and times as an affiliate - I was just asking him for assistance, and found the progressive accumulation of no-responses surprising.)
In the light of Allan's explanation of how much Ken Evoy is doing to manage email I find it even more surprising that 3 emails from an affiliate could have been dropped.
How could they miss or ignore these subject lines?:
1st email: "my first-ever check hasn't yet arrived after 6 weeks..."
2nd email: "i've had no response to my affilliate query"
3rd email: "i get no human response regarding a check query..."
In fact, this is not the first time that my emails go unanswered there. It's just the first time I complain - probably because I'm prejudiced in favour of SiteSell: I've always been in awe of their excellent products, productivity and service.
Allan has always responded to me in the past (I've asked him advice a couple of times over the years).
(Allan, how about adding a control step whereby your assistant can scan the deleted subject lines before finally dumping them: then you may have picked up my specially construed Subject Line: "no response at SiteSell, turn to you as my upline..." which I had hoped would catch your attention!)
Thanks for your reply. We think a lot alike in some arenas. I just got back from the beach Sunday.
Plain and simple, customer service can be a pain or it can be a rewarding experience. Bottom line though, I'm not good at it. I'm like you, as I have people helping me with e-mail also. That arena has made me money, and lost it as well.
Hey, everyone needs to get "wound up" at times. Who wants to be in a coma their whole life?
Neels,
""no response at SiteSell, turn to you as my upline...""
Here's why if I saw an e-mail with a subject line like that, I would delete it half the time:
It appears to be negative. It appears if I open it, someone will be complaining and perhaps bashing. Half the time I don't care to deal with that e-mail at all.
Here's how to get a response from almost any company:
Subject Line: "You guys/gals have an excellent product"
Joined: 04 Jul 2003 Posts: 40 Location: New Jersey, USA
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 5:04 pm Post subject:
hahaha... I do the same thing. Either I will mark it as read and then forget about it later because I want to save it knowing that I will never read it OR I will just delete it OR I will send it to my partner. Let him handle it. The best thing to do is to refer them to the message board, that is where they will get the most help anyway. _________________ http://www.fastfinancialfreedom.org - financial freedom is a myth (check out my brother's site)
http://www.fastfinancialfreedom.org - financial freedom is a myth (check out my brother's site)
If SiteSell or Allan are genuinely interested in dealing with complaints (as I know they are) and have a procedure in place to do so, then why should I need to "get'em" with a somewhat disingenuous subjectline - in stead of just a plain informative one?
Having said that, I'm sure there are other web businesses where your advice may be appropriate, but then such a careless or flippant attitude to customer service will often shine through soon enough - maybe even long before one gets to a serious complaint stage. And more often than not the solution is simple: the next company is just a click away. As you say, you've learnt the hard way :-)
"If SiteSell or Allan are genuinely interested in dealing with complaints (as I know they are) and have a procedure in place to do so, then why should I need to "get'em" with a somewhat disingenuous subjectline - in stead of just a plain informative one?"
If you can't conceptualize opening your e-mail to over 100 e-mails and answering the positive ones first and perhaps ignoring the potential "flaming" e-mails at times, then you obviously don't run a large scale operation. Or perhaps you aren?t human? Either that or you really feel "Neels" doesn't need to "play the game", aka kill em with kindness, do what it takes to get your e-mail read first, etc. Perhaps you feel this world owes you something. Perhaps you feel "Neels" can say or do whatever he likes in an e-mail and get a response because "the customer is always right".
Neels, why don't you e-mail Yahoo and tell em how po'ed you are at all the ads you have to look at in your free e-mail account. Heck, not even Yahoo. Try Lycos.
This is almost like the disgruntled salesman who is ticked because he can't get past the receptionist to make a sales pitch to the boss, while he sees others do it with ease.
I gave you the best advice you will probably ever hear regarding having your e-mail be read. Take it or leave it. Fight the system, or manipulate it to your benefit. Bottom line ? positive e-mails are more likely to be read first than negative ones. Remember, Neels, you are dealing with human beings here. We?re not perfect like you.
?Having said that, I'm sure there are other web businesses where your advice may be appropriate, but then such a careless or flippant attitude to customer service will often shine through soon enough - maybe even long before one gets to a serious complaint stage. And more often than not the solution is simple: the next company is just a click away. As you say, you've learnt the hard way ?
Oh really? Not if you have one of the very best products on the market.
You type as if YOU think you are speaking from experience, while we know YOU have no idea what it takes to run a full scale money making machine. Heck, I come on board to help you with your 2-bit check issue and what do you do? You insult me. Good going, Neels.
?As you say, you've learnt the hard way ?
Yeah, I?m not too proud to publicly state one of my flaws. And every time I learn the hard way, I end up raising my income 10-15%. Bring on those ?Hard Way?s?.
Did you come here to learn, Neels? Or are you the expert here? Are you going to insult everyone who tries to help you?
I've had a very satisfying and clarifying response from SiteSell. Somehow my prior emails "fell through the cracks". I'm satisfied that they are dealing with the late payment issue, and that they're also trying to find out how my complaining emails were missed.
SpamHater,
My apologies if you felt insulted by anything I said - none was intended.
Thanks very much everyone for your contributions on this thread. Yes indeed, we do care like crazy about great support. And this is just a note to reply to this thread and most importantly, the original post from Neels...
I was so sorry to hear about the lack of support you recently received, Neels. We have been growing "almost too fast" due to the tremendous effectiveness of SBI!. No other host in the world delivers results like SBI! does. None.
When we check the Alexa rankings of other hosts "success stories," they are few and far between and rarely rank in the top million sites. Over 50% of SBI! sites rank in the Top 6% and we can see from log files that this is backed by real traffic. SBI! works (well, it works like a great set of power tools works... if the user puts in the effort).
Of course, word is spreading fast.
The success of SBI! is simply stretching the resources right now. We've been growing rapidly and are hiring (in fact, we're sending out an e-zine to all SBI! owners looking for new support staff next week). And we are writing our own CRM solution which will leverage the human effort that goes into support. I expect a dramatic improvement -- please realize that we do care deeply about great support. Ken cares and takes these cases seriously.
Regarding your specific case, Neels...
I didn't recall receiving anything from you, nor could I find a record of such, but I'm so glad this has been brought to my attention through this discussion board... BTW, Thanks Allan! This is a great "final stop" for us to watch to make sure we're aware of anything slipping past us.
(As we have already discussed today by e-mail, I'm waiting for an answer back from you to help us figure out what happened to your previous
e-mail, and I have resolved your question today.)
In theory, even now, nothing SHOULD get past us. Why?
Since Ken introduced the Autoresponder message which provides 3 important steps to follow to ensure no one falls through the cracks, "missed" e-mail is very low for those who follow the three steps that they get when you send to any of our general support address (such as the address your sent to, affiliates@sitesell.com).
STEP 2) Re-send your ORIGINAL e-mail. Add "REPEAT" to the
beginning of the ORIGINAL subject, so that we know you have
been waiting. Send it to support@sitesell.com -- TRIPLE-
check that there is no typo in the e-mail address.
(We prioritize these.)
STEP 3) If, after your REPEAT try, you again do not receive
a response after 4-6 hours (weekdays) or 12 hours (overnight
and weekends), please send your "REPEAT" e-mail directly to
help@sitesell.com.
(Ken reviews help@sitesell.com, after a screener makes sure
no one is misusing-using that address for other purposes. And
believe me, Ken pushes things fast when he gets a mail such
as the one you wrote to this board.)
Following this system REALLY prevents anyone's e-mail falling through the cracks. If you don't hear from us within hours, something may have gone astray. Following the Steps in the Autoresponder will ensure a quick fix.
However, not following those instructions is STILL no excuse for poor customer service. For 99% of incoming, we meet our deadlines, which is better than we ourselves have experienced from big companies when we need support. But we're taking steps to get better and better, and to scale for our continued anticipated growth.
Your letter is most helpful, even though painful for us to read. We're about to get better... and better.
Yours sincerely,
Linda Pace
Director Customer Support
Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 5839 Location: by the beach, Australia
Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2003 5:39 am Post subject:
Growth? I think SiteSell is up to a staff of about 28 now. I reckon that's not bad for a company that didn't exist a few years ago. To me, that's growth.
Sales? More than 100,000 ebooks. Thousands of copies of Site Build It. I reckon that's growth.
The product is only for newbies? Nope. You can create pages in Dreamweaver or whatever and drop them into SBI now.
Even if SBI were just for newbies, what on earth is wrong with creating a product that helps people who are learning? A product that simplifies generating revenue on the Internet? Sounds to me like a good thing to do.
Site Build It has wonderful success stories. For example, http://www.imaginge.com/ has used it to generate more than $2 million in sales. Yes, the site is simple. It's the results that count.
That's sure to result in even faster growth.[/b] _________________ Allan Gardyne
... earning a good living from affiliate programs since 1998.
Learn how.
Subscribe now FREE Affiliate Program Tutorial
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