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Charlie
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:44 am
Post subject: Links from Posts in the Blatant Promotion Sections...
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Allan, Wally and the world...
A thought regarding links from posts in the "Blatantly promote your non-MLM program here" and "Multi-level Marketing (MLM)" sections...
I quite understand why you say no promotional links from the message body generally, but how about these two sections specifically?
Considering these are just temporary posts, what if somebody wanted to promote something just here as opposed to from all their forum sigs? I could see a case for allowing promotional links from the body of a message in the two sections I mentioned.
Everyone knows these sections are for promotion, and they very rarely provoke much discussion as a result.
Thoughts on a postcard?
Cheers,
Charlie.
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administrator
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:45 pm
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Charlie,
Sounds good but we end up with l-o-n-g messages with repetitive or multiple URLs from so many. The cut-and-paste brigade have a field day too. This way they have to physically edit the generous signature file and "interact" with the message board. There is a bit of originality demonstrated.
Some users have demonstrated excellent use of the facility within those guidelines.
Hope that helps.
Wally Morgan - Moderator |
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AllanGardyne
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:03 pm
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Thanks for the idea, Charlie. I do think we probably need to improve the system. I'm just not sure exactly how.
I think if we simplified the system they way you suggest, we'd probably see a lot more flyby posters posting free ads. I'm not sure that a lot more free ads would add much, if any, value to the message board.
It might be a better option just to delete the free ads section altogether. Then there would be less room for confusion.
However, I'm not sure about that. A small minority make intelligent use of the free ads.
Another option might be to remove the word "blatantly" in "blatantly promote". Lots of people obviously read that and think they don't need to read the instructions.
We say on the main page of the forum:
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Create a signature file and place ALL links in your signature file. |
But many people obviously don't read that far.
You could look at it as a sort of intelligence test. If they can't - or won't - read that sentence, we don't need their free ads.
I'm eager to hear any more ideas. I'm sure our system could be improved.
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Charlie
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 2:08 pm
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| administrator wrote: | | Sounds good but we end up with l-o-n-g messages with repetitive or multiple URLs from so many. The cut-and-paste brigade have a field day too. |
| AllanGardyne wrote: | | I think if we simplified the system they way you suggest, we'd probably see a lot more flyby posters posting free ads. |
How about restricting it to one URL in the message body and limiting the length of a post. Any breach could lead to automatic deletion, rather than editing.
| Quote: | | It might be a better option just to delete the free ads section altogether. Then there would be less room for confusion. |
The problem is, if people don't advertise there, where will they? Surely the problem is with people who misuse the forum (whatever the section), not the ones who promote by the rules...
| Quote: | | Another option might be to remove the word "blatantly" in "blatantly promote". Lots of people obviously read that and think they don't need to read the instructions. |
Not only that, but more people might read the posts there, too...
Let's face it, canny advertisers know that a few hours in the most popular sections (before the offending post is removed) may well be worth more than 15 days in somewhere that most people never even look.
Perhaps by making the ads section more attractive, it would benefit everyone - and the forum generally.
| Quote: | | You could look at it as a sort of intelligence test. If they can't - or won't - read that sentence, we don't need their free ads. |
But surely that only acts as justification for editing or removal...
As it stands it acts more as an indicator of impending moderation policy than a determinant of posting behaviour.
Perhaps, by relaxing the rules of the promotional section, and removing the "sin bin" associations, more promoters will use it. The second half of the equation is to make the ads attractive enough for viewers to frequent the section.
It would be possible to have some fun in there, too, if it was set up right.
Food for thought,
Charlie.
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Jim Guinn
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 3:45 pm
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I've seen forums where you can't even advertise in the advertising section(s) until you have 25 or 50 posts in the forum. Once you have the required amount, you can then put your links in the post in the advertising section only. It tends to eliminate the "fly bys" since most of these people won't stick around to make the required amount of posts. As far as the few who will try to put their links in their post before they have the required amount of posts, you guys do a good job of moderating and housekeeping already anyway.
Jim
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administrator
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:41 pm
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Ah, Charlie, you want somewhere else to have some "fun", eh!
For your information, I currently just delete ads that are full of URLs with an explanatory PM. Most of those don't get through as the writer doesn't even bother to edit his profile to receive PMs.
I get beautiful apologies at times and the advertisers folllow the guidelines with very acceptable ads.
Jim, I like the idea of a positive interaction before bing allowed to present ads.
I'll leave it to Allan to make the big decision. I can see that relaxing the format, deleting the "blatant" to make the opportunity more attractive to advertisers and readers and restricting the offer to active participants could work.
And Charlie, a play pen it might be! I do agree that very few ever write replies. It may be that the section has a kind of stigma attached to it and, although we read there, we don't want to be seen to interact there.
Back to the drawing board - er conference room!
Wally Morgan - Moderator |
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AllanGardyne
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:52 pm
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Mmmmm. If we make the free ads section more attractive to people wanting to post there and easier to post without needing to read the rules, surely we'd gradually see more and more free ads posted?
My bandwidth fees would soar. I wonder if those flyby posters would be worth having?
This sounds dangerously like the old dot-com model of giving stuff away, attracting hoards of visitors, and hoping somehow to make money out of it all one day.
The present system of insisting that URLs go in signatures, helps limit the number of free ads people post.
I wouldn't want to see two dozen affiliates each post 100 free ads. 
We'd need some limitations, say one post per person per week or something?
Whatever we do, it would be nice to come up with a solution which doesn't involve Wally wasting time trying to send private messages to people who haven't enabled the private message facility.
[Update: We dumped the Free Ads section because too many people abused it.]
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Last edited by AllanGardyne on Sun Jun 11, 2006 4:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Charlie
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:09 pm
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| MorpheusBiz wrote: | | I've seen forums where you can't even advertise in the advertising section(s) until you have 25 or 50 posts in the forum. |
The problem is, you risk encouraging people to post when either they have nothing to say, or don't want to say it. Already, the main forum is plagued by regular drop in posters who simply fire off a string of one liners: "I agree" or "let me state the bleeding obvious" - just to get their sig displayed...
Don't get me wrong: I'm not knocking short posts generally, but I just don't think it's the best approach to "reward" people in this way. Put it another way...
Would you want the forum populated by people who were here just for the promotion? OK, so this might be a bit of a Pandora's box, but I'm sitting on top for now...
| Quote: | | As far as the few who will try to put their links in their post before they have the required amount of posts, you guys do a good job of moderating and housekeeping already anyway. |
I suspect one of the main issues here is the level of forum management that is required on an on-going basis.
Most of just read and write. Wally and Allan have to clean up, as well.
| Wally wrote: | | Ah, Charlie, you want somewhere else to have some "fun", eh! |
I'm not sure; I hardly ever even look in those sections myself.
No, I'm just trying to outline the conflicting priorities as I see them...
Surely it's all a balance between interesting posts that attract targeted visitors; enough promotion opportunities to attract decent posts on a regular basis; ease of management.
| AllanGardyne wrote: | | Mmmmm. If we make the free ads section more attractive to people wanting to post there and easier to post without needing to read the rules, surely we'd gradually see more and more free ads posted? |
I don't think allowing one URL in the body of a message in that section would make it much more appealing for a drop in promoter.
Isn't the real problem one of coming up with rules that are flexible enough, but not overly taxing on human moderators. It doesn't matter what the rules are - people will always break them.
Why not adopt a much less tolerant attitude to posters in those sections. Just delete, rather than edit or try and contct to justify moderation policy.
| Quote: | | This sounds dangerously like the old dot-com model of giving stuff away, attracting hoards of visitors, and hoping somehow to make money out of it all one day. |
Sounds like forum marketing in general, to me.
| Quote: | | I wouldn't want to see two dozen affiliates each post 100 free ads. |
What's stopping us all do that now within the rules or without them? It isn't the existing rules. To me the bigger problem is promotion in the main forum. Just recently, a couple of posters seem to be fine tuning a very good strategy of subtle promotion under the guise of "marketing example we can all learn from".
In principle, I object, but the people's posts are good enough over time for me to look the other way rather than "chase them down the street with the bread knife".
| Quote: | | We'd need some limitations, say one post per person per week or something? |
This is similar to the requirement that advertisers must post first, in my eyes...
Any system that regulates by numbers is missing the point...
Surely, we need advertisers to want to advertise within the rules in the correct place. Then those sections change for the better, people start responding to the ads (by actually visiting the section) and the forum is cleaned up generally.
Surely, this can be achieved by employing two different sets of rules and moderating style for different areas of the forum. Let the human interaction moderating style remain for the discussion area, and let the axeman loose in the promotions - backed up by more stringent rules.
But the first step might be removing "blatant" from the title.
What do you reckon,
Charlie.
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Jim Guinn
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:12 pm
Post subject:
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| Quote: | MorpheusBiz wrote:
I've seen forums where you can't even advertise in the advertising section(s) until you have 25 or 50 posts in the forum.
| Quote: | The problem is, you risk encouraging people to post when either they have nothing to say, or don't want to say it. Already, the main forum is plagued by regular drop in posters who simply fire off a string of one liners: "I agree" or "let me state the bleeding obvious" - just to get their sig displayed...
Don't get me wrong: I'm not knocking short posts generally, but I just don't think it's the best approach to "reward" people in this way. Put it another way...
Would you want the forum populated by people who were here just for the promotion? OK, so this might be a bit of a Pandora's box, but I'm sitting on top for now... |
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One forum I belong to put this policy in a few months ago (the other just instituted it recently....too early to tell)...and, it cleaned up the forum quite a bit. A lot of the flybys stopped flying by.
| Quote: | Quote:
As far as the few who will try to put their links in their post before they have the required amount of posts, you guys do a good job of moderating and housekeeping already anyway.
I suspect one of the main issues here is the level of forum management that is required on an on-going basis.
Most of just read and write. Wally and Allan have to clean up, as well.
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Wally and Allan already have one of the highest levels of forum management and involvement I have ever seen. This certainly would not make more work for them, and could even make their job a little easier if the same holds true for this forum like the one I mentioned that already instituted it.
Jim
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AllanGardyne
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Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:16 pm
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Many thanks for all the helpful suggestions.
This forum keeps changing gradually. Our decisions are based on suggestions we receive from members.
We've simplified the rules to make them easier to understand, less restrictive and with any luck the Free Advertising section should now require less moderating.
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Allan Gardyne
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Charlie
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Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:41 pm
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| AllanGardyne wrote: | | This forum keeps changing gradually. Our decisions are based on suggestions we receive from members. |
Nice to see the back of blatant. I hope the changes work out well. I think they will.
If all does go well, how about giving the one link per post a try in there, too?
Cheers,
Charlie.
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AllanGardyne
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Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 3:52 am
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I think allowing only one link in the body of each free ad is a good idea.
However, I'm trying to keep the Free Ads rules as simple as possible.
Our experience has been that many forum members don't read the forum instructions.
We tried to solve that problem by adding adding stickies. Didn't work.
We tried to cram the instructions into the one-paragraph explanations under the links on the page of the forum. People didn't read them.
So while I like your idea, it would make the rules more complex and not so easy to understand at a glance.
We'll try the new system for a while and see what happens.
[Update: We dumped the Free Ads section because too many people abused it.]
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Allan Gardyne
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