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BobsStuff
Joined:
06 Jan 2005
Posts:
105
Location:
Oxnard Ca 1 Hr North of Los Angeles
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Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:21 am
Post subject: Is Martell Manual's New Keyword Density BOGUS?
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Read the thread at http://www.associateprograms.com/discus/ftopic12851.html
It tells of a new Martell site he just talked about in the BUZZ -- he didn't give the URL.........is was "discovered".
This is an interesting find. According to Martell's new keyword density forumla you use a keyword once and that's it.
If you look at this page his keyword or keyword phrases are used multiple times. If his new keyword densitiy is such an important and valuable rule to follow, why doesn't he follow it?
I am losing a lot of confidence in James Martell. He doesn't give any examples of what he is talking about in his manual and when you finally find a newer site he created, it doesn't follow th manual. What is with that?
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flexprimo
Joined:
10 May 2005
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37
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Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:04 am
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I'm sure he tests different keyword densities just as anyone else should be doing.
This site has been "found" by someone who went looking for it after he mentioned it on the Buzz. It could be a test site for all we know.
I always get a chuckle out of these posts questioning why doesn't JM tell us the REAL story as if he's really hiding the good stuff and throwing scraps to all his followers.
His system is a starting point that makes a lot of sense. Anyone following it seriously SHOULD be testing different methods to get the best results. There are plenty of other "gurus" who have different systems that also work, so JM certainly doesn't have a lock on the way to "do" affiliate marketing.
Why not build two sites on the same topic - one following the keyword density rules in the manual, the other following what can be reverse-engineered from a site like this one.
If the reverse-engineered site performed better, you could write a book exposing the truth and sell it to all his disenchanted students 
Actually, if you really want to get some good information about how to build a successful site, invest the time and money to attend a couple of the bigger affiliate marketing conferences like Affiliate Summit or CJU. You'll meet people who make a lot of money with site ideas that you would never have considered.
They might not tell you exactly how to do it but the ideas you'll come away with are far more valuable than the cost of the conference. |
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robertb
Joined:
09 Aug 2003
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1837
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Columbus, OH
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Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Is Martell Manual's New Keyword Density BOGUS?
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| BobsStuff wrote: |
If you look at this page his keyword or keyword phrases are used multiple times. If his new keyword densitiy is such an important and valuable rule to follow, why doesn't he follow it?
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What he gives out aren't "rules" that he must follow, they're just guidelines. The moment you start blindly following any one method online is when things change; you've gotta keep things mixed up. According to your logic, he would have never arrived at the new guidelines because he should always should have followed the old ones. 
Let's not forget that he didn't arrive at the new guidelines by not testing. My guess is he's still testing a variety of methods. It's no secret, Yahoo ranks better with higher density, while Google throws a fit about it. There's no reason why James couldn't be targeting one and not the other.
| Quote: | | I am losing a lot of confidence in James Martell. He doesn't give any examples of what he is talking about in his manual and when you finally find a newer site he created, it doesn't follow th manual. What is with that? |
If you really want examples you need to go out and find them yourself, just as that poster did.
What would you recommend, that he asks our permission before he launches a site that doesn't follow his guidelines?
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Robert
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BobsStuff
Joined:
06 Jan 2005
Posts:
105
Location:
Oxnard Ca 1 Hr North of Los Angeles
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:46 am
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I always get a chuckle at all the JM followers who defend his lack of interest in his students. He is more interested in teaching up about his COBRA. Why is it he can't show by example? A picture is worth a thousand words.
| robertb wrote: |
If you really want examples you need to go out and find them yourself, just as that poster did.
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If Martell is selling a how to manual I would expect some examples of what he is talking about. I shouldn't have to "search for them myself" Surely that's not too much to ask of someone selling a manual tha is supposed to teach me how to do what he is talking about.
AND the old story of him "not trusting" his students and others who might steal his example site. SO WHAT! Put up a sacrificial lamb. Let it get stolen and duplicated so students can see exactly what he is talking about.
The more I read in his defense the less I am convinced.
I like a lot of what he says, but I think he gives his readers a lot less than 100%
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robertb
Joined:
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1837
Location:
Columbus, OH
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:26 am
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| BobsStuff wrote: | | I always get a chuckle at all the JM followers who defend his lack of interest in his students. He is more interested in teaching up about his COBRA. Why is it he can't show by example? A picture is worth a thousand words. |
Could he show by example? Of course he could, but that's not what I'm arguing. I'm pretty sure when you bought James' manual there was no mention that you'd see any of James sites after sending payment.
| BobsStuff wrote: |
If Martell is selling a how to manual I would expect some examples of what he is talking about.
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When is the last time you bought any type of manual that had real examples? I've bought countless hardcover how-to books; none of which come with real examples. I bought a dealer manual on how to work on my car; it doesn't include a real life mechanic showing me how to do it. Ok, I get pictures of cars and parts; but James manual does include pictures of sample sites.
Bob, you bought a MANUAL, nothing more. Not access to all of his sites, not access to any of them for that matter.
| Quote: | Surely that's not too much to ask of someone selling a manual tha is supposed to teach me how to do what he is talking about.
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If you actually read the manual, then you don't need examples of his sites. He teaches you through the manual, not by looking at his sites. Once again, him teaching you has nothing to do with seeing his sites.
| Quote: | AND the old story of him "not trusting" his students and others who might steal his example site. SO WHAT! Put up a sacrificial lamb. Let it get stolen and duplicated so students can see exactly what he is talking about.
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Of course you'd say "so what," it's not your money.
I'm sure if you'd put up the $500-$1000 I imagine he spends to launch a site, then I imagine he wouldn't mind sacrificing it.
I guess I'm sort of puzzled on what your issue his with James. As you stated yourself, you like what he says. Is it that you don't believe what he says and want to see it for yourself?
Here's basically a summary of my rambling: you bought a book from James. You didn't buy access to know his sites, you didn't buy access to every detail of his business. Me and everyone else here is working with EXACTLY the same manual that you have. Just because I've seen more Martell sites than you doesn't mean I'm any more capible of building a business with his methods.
If anything, following his sites is the easiest way to get off-track as you don't know what he's testing or what is working consistently.
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Last edited by robertb on Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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John Lenaghan
Joined:
09 Nov 2003
Posts:
86
Location:
Langley, BC, Canada
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:31 am
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| BobsStuff wrote: | | I always get a chuckle at all the JM followers who defend his lack of interest in his students. He is more interested in teaching up about his COBRA. Why is it he can't show by example? A picture is worth a thousand words. |
Bob, I'm curious to know which learning method works best for you - by reading about it, by seeing it done or by hearing how to do it? I think I've got a pretty good idea from your posts that I've read on this board, but I'm curious to know what you think.
Personally, I learn best by reading, then by listening and least of all by seeing it done. That may be why I'm perfectly happy with both JM's manual and Buzz. I can see where someone who learns best by seeing it done would think the manual doesn't go far enough.
The Affiliate Bootcamp that James is putting on this October might be more along the lines of what you're looking for. He's going to go through the process of building a site step by step for a live class.
The cost is quite high at $3000+ (plus transportation to Vancouver) but he's apparently going to make a DVD of it that he's going to sell next year. That might be an option for you if you want to see some examples. |
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HumDog
Joined:
03 Apr 2004
Posts:
49
Location:
Wyoming
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:51 pm
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I am relatively new to James Martell's methods but not new to Internet
Marketing. When I read these post I am reminded of the show
"The X Files" with all the paranoia and conspiracy theories.
I had to laugh at the post by flexprimo, he hit the nail on the head.
Stop whining and start doing. I am in the middle of building a huge
affiliate site (no I am not going to give you the url) and I am not
following JM's directions wholehearedly.
The main focus of the site is to get the email subscription so I can
continue to sell to the list. Different than what James does.
However the next site after that one will be exactly as he subscribes.
I don't blame the dude for not giving out his site url's. Look how many
copycats jumped on the satellite and cell phone bandwagon.
These are your typical complainers who don't want to think for
themselves they just want the golden brick road layed out for them
so they can steal content, ideas, etc...
John Reese also preaches not to tell people your sites.
Frank Kern told people about his dog secrets site and looked what
happened to him. One guy completely stole his exact site!
Then all the complainers and copycats got into the dog niche.
I myself have been ripped off. Some clown competitor actually copied
part of my sales letter!
People are lazy including his students (some of them) so don't complain
that he does not share his sites.
Look at the Buzz as a motivator and not as a teaching and you will
get more out of it.
I am not trying to suck up to JM because I don't even know the guy
I just bought his course not to long ago, however one thing I really
like is he does not go out on the seminar circuit like all the other
guru's trying to build up their ego's.
He just keeps doing what he teaches, building sites that make money.
Also his course is very fairly priced. The other guru's would be selling
this course for $700 bucks if it was their own.
You must continually test on the Internet and that is what James does.
After he comes to a conclusion then he tells the students. I don't think
he's the "smoking man" in X- Files. 
Stop complaining and think for yourselves.
Peter Humleker
www.carbuyingscams.com
(the only site I publish in public!)
flexprimo |
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BobsStuff
Joined:
06 Jan 2005
Posts:
105
Location:
Oxnard Ca 1 Hr North of Los Angeles
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Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 4:36 am
Post subject:
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| robertb wrote: | | When is the last time you bought any type of manual that had real examples? . |
Actually both Rosalind Garnder's and Corey Rudl's (RIP) both have examples in them. Yes, I have those courses too.
To answer another question, I learn by reading, which is seeing. Seeing is believing, and JM doesn't give much to see. When you do find what he is doing, it is different than he is teaching. I haver read that you learn and retain a lot more by seeing an example than by hearing or reading about one.
OH WELL, I don't regret buying JM's course, I jus find it a little short when it comes to a complete how to manual.
I am just starting in wedsite development. I'm not make enough to brag about or even get you excited about. I need examples and quality manuals that teach me the ropes.
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Bob |
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cruthin
Joined:
22 Jan 2005
Posts:
71
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Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 1:02 pm
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Hi Bob,
"wedsite development"....have you checked if honeymooners are renting RVs for their nuptial celebrations. Could be quite a niche site for you!
Also, re your frustration with JM and his hide and seek sites...came across a story about a marketer called Frank Kern, whose very successful dog sites (there are apparently dozens if not hundreds of them by breed etc) were blatantly ripped off once he let news of what he was up to leak out.
I often wonder if those who know JM personally in Canada learn a lot more in 30 minutes of chat over a coffee than you'll find in any manual?
While the written word on a web forum can come across much differently than the poster may have originally intended, I think your questions have a constructive angle to them and should represent useful feedback to JM and his team - did you contact him directly?
Best wishes |
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nyfalcon
Joined:
31 Oct 2004
Posts:
58
Location:
new york
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Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 10:42 pm
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| Once again the internet changes and so should you. I have about 18 sites that are JM based but they are all different. some have rss some dont have link partners some dont have pad. some are 2005 manual and some are not. It is actually a benefit not having the same style sites as the search engines each want something else. Heck I even have datafeed jm sites and he doesn't even mention that although I am sure he has some too |
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JonMills
Joined:
02 Jul 2005
Posts:
156
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:54 pm
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90% is offpage factors the other 10 % is on page ( but dont write that in stone as the internet changes fast)
The only density you need to know is the density of the guys website page on page 1 and 2 for your keyword phrase.
This way no matter how the search engines change their underwear.. you will always be rocking.
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Guitarjoe
Joined:
23 May 2005
Posts:
2
Location:
Oklahoma - USA
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Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 2:22 pm
Post subject: Example Site
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Hi All,
If you look in the Martell manual you'll see that he DOES give an example of what a "good" affiliate site is "suppose" to look like from one of his students.
However, if you type in the url for that site in your browser you'll see a LOT of changes compared to what James has shown in the book.
I don't have time to argue about "right or wrong" as I'm to busy working.
I just wanted to share. |
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