Joined: 22 Aug 2003 Posts: 1322 Location: Gainesville Florida USA
Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 10:21 pm Post subject: Off topic ads?
Do you guys notice that sometimes Adsense throws up totally irrelevant ads?
I was just working on a site about keywords, and the word keywords was repeated endlessly in URL, title, all <H2> and <H3> headers, and about a million times throughout copy.
The word MP3 is mentioned one single time at bottom of page.
The Adsense ads are all MP3 ads.
Adsense does work most of time, not a crisis, was just wondering if you'd seen this. _________________ Free Email Discussion Group For Your Site
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Joined: 22 Aug 2003 Posts: 1322 Location: Gainesville Florida USA
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:41 pm Post subject:
Ha, I just tested an optimized article all about webmaster stuff. "Webmaster" in page title, headers, many times in article body, plus all kinds of related wordage.
The Google ads were all about *** stuff, cross dressing and the like.
We're now taking pre-release orders for an exciting new ebook about making millions online, by some guy wearing a dress! I finally found my unique angle in the net biz niche!
Hmm. Somebody needs to write a script that monitors your Adsense ads? _________________ Free Email Discussion Group For Your Site
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Joined: 29 Mar 2005 Posts: 363 Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:22 pm Post subject:
Phil Tanny wrote:
We're now taking pre-release orders for an exciting new ebook about making millions online, by some guy wearing a dress! I finally found my unique angle in the net biz niche!
LOL Hey, whatever works! Sounds like Google's algorithm Black Box is a bit dented lately, or maybe the Adwords keyword monitor is asleep at the wheel, with so many off-topic ads. Mine all seem to be on-topic, so maybe it's just some sites or certain topics? I'll be interested to see how you make out with this. Are you going to write Google and ask about it? That's what I would do. Good luck!
Edited afterthought: Have you tried using the Adsense Preview tool on the page? Does it come up with anything different?
Starhugger _________________ * * * * * * * * * * *
THE EVOLVING DOOR
Astrology for the Spirit, Heart & Mind
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Joined: 22 Aug 2003 Posts: 1322 Location: Gainesville Florida USA
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:43 pm Post subject:
Hi Starhugger, nice to thread with you again.
Adsense Preview tool? Somebody clue grandpa in please.
My research in to Adsense *** ads continue. I have a theory to work on.
The page in question is part of my upcoming blog. At the top of the page, in small letters, was my glorious title, "Professor Blowhard". I will leave the rest of this theory to your imagination.
I removed that word, and refreshed cache, but no change so far. Maybe a few hours needs to go by, or maybe my theory is just wrong.
I'm off to write a bunch of crossing dressing articles now, so I can get those webmaster ads back up! _________________ Free Email Discussion Group For Your Site
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Joined: 22 Aug 2003 Posts: 1322 Location: Gainesville Florida USA
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:25 am Post subject:
Here's what Google says;
Quote:
Thank you for letting us know about this issue. If your page hasn't been
indexed previously, relevant ads may not appear immediately after you
place the AdSense ad code on a page. While our crawlers work to gather
content from the page, non-paying public service ads or irrelevant ads may
be displayed for 48 hours or longer. You should expect your ad relevance
to increase over time.
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Joined: 22 Aug 2003 Posts: 1322 Location: Gainesville Florida USA
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:50 am Post subject:
Google has responded promptly to my concerns, which always impresses me.
The more I thought about it I realized that having cross dressing ads showing up on a business blog could have real income implications for some. It's funny, but serious too.
I've suggested to Google that they give *** content ads special attention. For instance, ideally an Adsense publisher should have to check a box within their account before Google shows *** ads on that site. That is, the default is off.
*** ads aside, readers might want to review Google's comments just above. This would seem to me to indicate Adsense is not appropriate for a blog, where the content may change daily. Not much point in using Adsense if the ads will be continually off topic... _________________ Free Email Discussion Group For Your Site
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Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 5839 Location: by the beach, Australia
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:11 am Post subject:
Phil Tanny wrote:
Adsense Preview tool? Somebody clue grandpa in please.
Hi Granpa, It's a tool you can download from the AdSense section of the Google site.
One use for it is to find out what ads are displayed to people in different parts of the world.
Do a search on Google for "adsense preview tool" and you'll find out all about it. _________________ Allan Gardyne
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Joined: 22 Aug 2003 Posts: 1322 Location: Gainesville Florida USA
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:20 am Post subject:
Thanks Allan. Um yea, I think I've heard of Google.
Darn, won't work for us Mac weenies. No worries, I'm sure there must be an online version of this somewhere. A googling I will go. _________________ Free Email Discussion Group For Your Site
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Joined: 22 Aug 2003 Posts: 1322 Location: Gainesville Florida USA
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Here's an update from Google:
Quote:
We currently do not run paid Google ads on web pages that are determined to contain potentially mature or adult content by our automatic contextual advertising system -- only Google ads categorized as 'Family Safe' by the AdWords team are available through the AdSense program at this time.
However, if you are seeing Google ads that may be offensive to your
visitors, you can prevent these ads from showing on your site by using the Competitive Ad Filter in your Google AdSense account.
OK, I guess cross dressing and *** topics fall within Google's definition of "family safe". Click here now to teach your son how to buy panty hose!
Don't know. Seems to me that tossing *** content ads in to the general Adsense mix is a public relations mistake for Google.
And I'm left wondering, does Google have a different definition of family safe than me, or are they blowing smoke when they try to tell me only family safe ads are run, when I just got done telling them about the *** ads on my site???? _________________ Free Email Discussion Group For Your Site
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Joined: 29 Mar 2005 Posts: 363 Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:15 am Post subject:
Phil Tanny wrote:
OK, I guess cross dressing and *** topics fall within Google's definition of "family safe". Click here now to teach your son how to buy panty hose!
Don't know. Seems to me that tossing *** content ads in to the general Adsense mix is a public relations mistake for Google.
Phil, are these ads clearly *** in nature and designed to entice someone in that way (e.g., porn), or are they meant to be educational? Have you checked out the sites that have posted the ads? You don't have to click on the ads, just mouseover and catch the URL and then punch it in manually. Maybe they seem to entice but are actually more educational and informative, intended for people who want to know more about such things.
It's one thing for an ad to be off-topic...which already seems to push credibility of the Adsense/Adwords monitoring, with this kind of content (educational or not) displaying on a page about webmastering. But it's another thing to have virtual or actual porn ads on Adsense. I was thinking about this after I read your posts and I thought I remembered that Google has a no-***-content rule. It seems strange that they don't seem to want to deal with this or investigate it further.
You've got me curious now. What's the URL of your site that's having the problem? Can you add it to your sig for us to check it out?
Starhugger _________________ * * * * * * * * * * *
THE EVOLVING DOOR
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Joined: 22 Aug 2003 Posts: 1322 Location: Gainesville Florida USA
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:31 am Post subject:
StarHugger wrote:
Phil, are these ads clearly *** in nature and designed to entice someone in that way (e.g., porn), or are they meant to be educational?
So, you want me to admit I've been reading cross dressing sites? Wait a second, I think I have the URL's in my purse.
Seriously, I see your point, and it's a good one. I can't answer it, yet, as I didn't visit the sites. To me it didn't matter, as the headlines were enough to cause a distracting disconnect for visitors.
StarHugger wrote:
It's one thing for an ad to be off-topic...which already seems to push credibility of the Adsense/Adwords monitoring
I thought it was interesting that they say they may have to run irrelevant ads for the first 48 hours or more. Kinda rules out blogs it would seem.
StarHugger wrote:
I thought I remembered that Google has a no-***-content rule.
Yea, it's puzzling. Why would they sell *** ads, if they won't accept publishers with *** content? Oh, I know, so they can run them on my blog, I get it now...
StarHugger wrote:
It seems strange that they don't seem to want to deal with this or investigate it further.
They have been quite responsive to my emails. But not to the idea of a *** ad filter. They want me to ban the ads one at a time, which is hard to do until they are already on your site.
StarHugger wrote:
You've got me curious now. What's the URL of your site that's having the problem? Can you add it to your sig for us to check it out?
I took that page down of course, and it wasn't ready to go public anyway. But I'll see if I can recreate it.
As I recall I wouldn't call the ads porn ads, but it was a whole panel of ads they were clearly about *** identity issues. Not a scandal, just way off topic, and a possible public relations gaff for everybody involved.
I'd guess most readers would not pause to make the distinctions we're starting to discuss, and would just see mention of *** and form their reactions, whatever they might be. Who knows, maybe I'd make a bundle in clickthroughs! _________________ Free Email Discussion Group For Your Site
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Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 5839 Location: by the beach, Australia
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:43 am Post subject:
Phil Tanny wrote:
I thought it was interesting that they say they may have to run irrelevant ads for the first 48 hours or more. Kinda rules out blogs it would seem.
In my experience, relevant ads are shown very quickly in nearly all cases. Google is just protecting itself, I think.
Also, blogs have lots of archived pages on which relevants ads should be shown even if the targeting isn't perfect on the main page. _________________ Allan Gardyne
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Joined: 22 Aug 2003 Posts: 1322 Location: Gainesville Florida USA
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:47 am Post subject:
AllanGardyne wrote:
Also, blogs have lots of archived pages on which relevants ads should be shown even if the targeting isn't perfect on the main page.
Sure, good point. We could just leave Adsense off the main page if we have problems with it.
And my experience may just be one of those oddball occurrences that pop up from time to time in any scenario.
I still do wonder though, if Google doesn't work with *** content authors, what is the appropriate destination for these ads? Well, Google's problem I guess. Hopefully. _________________ Free Email Discussion Group For Your Site
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Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:05 pm Post subject:
Phil Tanny wrote:
Seriously, I see your point, and it's a good one. I can't answer it, yet, as I didn't visit the sites. To me it didn't matter, as the headlines were enough to cause a distracting disconnect for visitors.
Yes, as you point out, many people (most?) would not stop to ask if it's a porn ad or just an educational ad with controversial content. They would just react, and many would react negatively. Because of the delicate nature of the topic which can be offensive in the extreme to some people (whether intended to be *** or educational), you shouldn't have to filter out ads of that nature one at a time.
On the other hand, by not drawing a distinction for controversial topics (which could potentially mushroom into quite a monster), Google is being very equitable about the grey areas, which is perhaps commendable. It must be hard for an agency like Google to know where to draw the line between offensive and controversial, and how to handle those shades of grey. I don't envy them that job.
You raise an excellent point about what kinds of pages these ads are on-topic for, since Google doesn't permit host pages to be adult/*** content. Even if these ads are meant to be educational, they clearly (from your own reaction) push buttons in the viewer that are not about education. It still makes me wonder if they're not doing an end run around the system using off-topic keywords, but who knows.
It seems that, while Google does not permit *** content per se, it does not restrict topics of a controversial or sensitive nature. You mentioned before about having an option about whether to display sensitive topic ads, which Google might have to consider if they don't want to censor ads that are controversial.
It could be argued that people with sites geared to children, or for whom certain controversial topics would be offensive in the extreme (e.g., an ad about gay marriage on a conservative religious website), should perhaps be able to filter out inappropriate ads more easily than picking them off one by one. But that could also raise accusations of discrimination too, and could open a can of worms about what is controversial that is perhaps best left alone. In a way, it's a no-win situation for Google, who will never please all of the people all of the time. We're just too darn diverse.
On the other side of this, I wonder what kinds of keywords these advertisers are putting in that would get them in default ad units that haven't been categorized yet! It might be an interesting lesson in how to work Adwords. I had always thought that it was only public service ads that were put up if the page wasn't categorized yet. Maybe these ads are PSAs but designed to grab your attention. And apparently they're very successful! LOL
Starhugger _________________ * * * * * * * * * * *
THE EVOLVING DOOR
Astrology for the Spirit, Heart & Mind
www.evolvingdoor.ca
Joined: 22 Aug 2003 Posts: 1322 Location: Gainesville Florida USA
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:48 pm Post subject:
StarHugger wrote:
In a way, it's a no-win situation for Google, who will never please all of the people all of the time. We're just too darn diverse.
Excellent post. You're right, it's more complicated than it would appear to one person, because there are lots of people involved. One person's controversy is another's cause, etc.
I hear you again, open mindedness is good. Personally I have nothing against cross dressers etc, to each their own. So there is a logic to Google saying they are not going to judge legal activities one way or another.
Life is full of tradeoffs. Serving everybody brings in more ad income, and creates more public relations challenges.
Overture and Findwhat used to (haven't checked lately) run ads for blatant spammers. They lost my business, but sold a lot of ads to spammers. I did my best to make it a public relations problem for them, but nobody really cares all that much, so life goes on.
Maybe the answer is just to serve everybody a little more effectively.
Say for instance, not ban controversial topics, but don't display them during the first week when the content of the page is being determined.
Thus, cross dressing ads wind up on cross dressing pages, where they aren't controversial, but helpful.
Who knows. That's Google's problem really. For us the answer really is pretty easy. Pull the ads if they aren't working. _________________ Free Email Discussion Group For Your Site
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Sounds like Google's algorithm Black Box is a bit dented lately, or maybe the Adwords keyword monitor is asleep at the wheel, with so many off-topic ads. Mine all seem to be on-topic, so maybe it's just some sites or certain topics? I'll be interested to see how you make out with this. Are you going to write Google and ask about it? That's what I would do. Good luck!
