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Declan OReilly
Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 529
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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 Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:22 am Post subject: Is GoogleGuy for real? |
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Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No its GoogleGuy!
Reading through some of GoogleGuys posts in other forums would lead many into thinking that this guy has some secret knowledge or mystical power. Not only are his posts vague or cryptic but seem to be written in a style of language more akin to some new age channeler claiming to be channeling wisdom from a higher source.
After reading some of his posts I am left with more questions than answers. For example a recent post regarding the so called 'Bourbon Update' he says:
| Quote: | | I did the rounds to check on the state of various data updates. I'd estimate that the "0.5" (not algorithmic changes, but rather responses to various spam/porn complaints + processing reinclusion requests) should go out this weekend sometime or possibly Monday. There should be a binary push this week to improve a corner-case of CJK-related search, and that new binary should have the hooks to turn on the third set of data. Regarding finishing up the second piece of data, there's still two data centers with older data. Those data centers will probably be switched over by Monday |
How do we know that he is not some geek sitting in a bedroom somewhere writing all this gobbledegook or at best some lowly Google employee with no real inside information or sway?
Thoughts please?
Declan
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Declan O'Reilly
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Debs
Joined: 16 Aug 2003
Posts: 4296
Location: NY
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:58 am Post subject: |
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I've followed GoogleGuy for years; he is real; not sure if he is one person or many, but he exists at Google ...
How do I know this?
he has offered and given help, particularly at WMW forum; to sites hit hard by an algo that shouldn't have hit them; he has done this sparingly however
he has been mentioned and "verified" on the Google Blog (Google's own blog) in the past
he took PM's at WMW for a short time trying to help with the redirect error that everyone complains about on Google SERPs; he has taken PM's on other issues as well, again, sparingly
He is cryptic at times, I'll give you that but he has been extremely helpful at others; he did a site review once on WMW for a guy who couldn't figure out why he was dropped by G; turns out the guy had one heavy spam site and GG laid it out for him with tips on improving to get back into Google ... it was a great read 
Just my 2 cents,
Debs
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Phil Tanny
Joined: 22 Aug 2003
Posts: 1324
Location: Gainesville Florida USA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: Is GoogleGuy for real? |
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| Declan OReilly wrote: | | How do we know that he is not some geek sitting in a bedroom somewhere writing all this gobbledegook or at best some lowly Google employee with no real inside information or sway? |
I know nothing about GoogleGuy, but I was struck at how widely applicable your question is.
I see the frame of mind you brought to GoogleGuy posts as being a chief obstacle to selling on the Net.
I'd like to see us rethink the whole issue of credibility.
It seems that now we look at it as an individual matter. If my posts or sales pages etc are baloney, that reflects on me alone.
Public trust might be more accurately looked at in ecological terms. Say, compare public trust to groundwater. If I dump baloney in to the public trust groundwater it actually effects all other readers and writers who are trying to communicate.
If you've read a lot of baloney around the Net that experience limits your ability to learn from GoogleGuy, and limits everybody else's ability to reach out to you with their offer or message.
The next time we read somebody who seems to be engaged in deliberate misinformation, let's picture that somebody dumping their garbage in to the lake we all draw our drinking water from.
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Declan OReilly
Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 529
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 3:54 am Post subject: |
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| Debs wrote: | I've followed GoogleGuy for years; he is real; not sure if he is one person or many, but he exists at Google ...
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Why don't Google just come clean and have an official spokesperson? Surely this would add more credibility to posts emanating from Google whether they be from one person or many.
| Phil Tanny wrote: | | I see the frame of mind you brought to GoogleGuy posts as being a chief obstacle to selling on the Net. |
Its more frustration at my site being dropped through the latest 'dance' while at the same time reading a lot of cryptic (non)information from GoogleGuy regarding the latest Bourbon Update.
Funnily enough I am still getting 800-900 visitors per day from Google so I am not in a position to complain. Neither am I going to let the latest dance or utterances from this guy affect my long term plan.
Declan
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Declan O'Reilly
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robertb
Joined: 09 Aug 2003
Posts: 1838
Location: Columbus, OH
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Declan OReilly wrote: |
Why don't Google just come clean and have an official spokesperson? Surely this would add more credibility to posts emanating from Google whether they be from one person or many.
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That would become a legal liability for Google. By allowing this individual to go about on his own, Google can't be held responsible for his advice or reportings.
Google works in very mysterious ways; they prefer to go under the radar. Another example is why doesn't Google develop a browser to challenge Microsoft? That would be like waving a red flag in front of a bull. But from what I've read Google essentially has a dedicated team of 2 or 3 that constantly works on FireFox. It's very clever. 
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Tech Evangelist
Joined: 09 Jun 2005
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:08 am Post subject: |
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GoogleGuy is real, although I have seen posts that appear to be from an imposter. The real GoogleGuy gives pretty straight answers and offers a lot of useful insight.
The alleged imposter is sarcastic and seems to have a social problem. The GoogleGuy on WMW is the real deal. He has done some marathon threads lately.
It is possible that there are multiple insiders responding to questions using the same forum handle.
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Declan OReilly
Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 529
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| robertb wrote: | | Google works in very mysterious ways; they prefer to go under the radar. Another example is why doesn't Google develop a browser to challenge Microsoft? That would be like waving a red flag in front of a bull. But from what I've read Google essentially has a dedicated team of 2 or 3 that constantly works on FireFox. It's very clever. |
If anyone has ever read Sun Tzu's Art of War it would make perfect sense to have someone like GoogleGuy throwing the competition (and 'black hats') off their scent and to avoid all out confrontation with the likes of MSN / Microsoft. But at the same time this can give rise to all sorts of urban myths and conspiracy theories.
Declan
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Declan O'Reilly
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AllanGardyne
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jul 2003
Posts: 6231
Location: by the beach, Australia
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Warburton
Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 136
Location: London
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | How do we know that he is not some geek sitting in a bedroom somewhere writing all this gobbledegook or at best some lowly Google employee with no real inside information or sway? |
I would have though that was obvious.
If GoogleGuy were an imposter supplying false or dubious information he would have been given his marching orders from webmasterworld a long time ago, because allowing him to run amok would have caused incalculable long-term damage to the forums on which he posts.
You are aware that the success of webmasterworld is largely a consequence of its editorial rigour? |
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Phil Tanny
Joined: 22 Aug 2003
Posts: 1324
Location: Gainesville Florida USA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Warburton wrote: | | If GoogleGuy were an imposter supplying false or dubious information he would have been given his marching orders from webmasterworld a long time ago, |
Hmm. I have sympathy for Declan's question.
It's no small matter to evaluate what is false or dubious information in the world of SEO where all the important factors are closely guarded secrets.
What makes webmaster world editors experts on constantly changing algos that a billion dollar company is working hard to obscure?
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Declan OReilly
Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 529
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:02 am Post subject: |
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| Phil Tanny wrote: | | What makes webmaster world editors experts on constantly changing algos that a billion dollar company is working hard to obscure? |
Exactly. Whose interests are being served by the postings of GoogleGuy on Webmaster World Forum?
| Warburton wrote: | | You are aware that the success of webmasterworld is largely a consequence of its editorial rigour? |
Thats a bit of a stretch. I rarely visit forums were the majority of the posters hide behind screen names for obvious reasons of credibility. On the Site Build It forum for instance only SBI owners / affiliates can post so there is no question of authenticity.
Surely the job of a forum editor is to edit out spam posts and offensive material NOT to edit actual content or to lock posts with GoogleGuy given free reign. I think you are skating on very thin ice with that assertion Warburton.
I don't deny that *some* of GoogleGuy's posts are probably legit. I just question their value to marketers/webmasters and the "smoke and mirrors" form in which they appear.
If more than one person is posting under GoogleGuy's screen name surely that opens up questions of accuracy and being true to type.
Who then is held to account for misinformation or inaccuracies?
When are Google going to become a 'grown up' business and stop leading us down the garden path with someone like GoogleGuy?
Declan
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Declan O'Reilly
Sometimes it pays to stay in bed on Monday, rather than spending the rest of the week debugging Monday's code.
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jkwilson
Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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Google's interests are being served
They have no responsibility whatsoever to tell anyone how their algo works and what any individual needs to do to rank well in their index.
Search results and the subsequent rankings are free, and the sales generated from that traffic are free in the sense that you don't pay to be listed. There is without question a time issue ivolved in regards to the work that went in to achieving those rankings but in the end it's the cheapest way to make money online.
It's not webmasters but web surfers who google wants to keep happy so they will continue to use them over Yahoo or MSN. They have every right to shake things up from time to time to try new methods that might make results more relevant.
Keeping things the same and allowing things to stagnate and become predictable and easy to manipulate is the quickest way to loose your edge in a very competitive industry.
As for not designating an official spokesperson, imagine the constant and never ending deluge of questions, threats, and accusations they would receive from webmasters! It would be like making Bill Gates's email and phone number available to every customer.
Jeremy |
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Declan OReilly
Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 529
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:35 am Post subject: |
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| jkwilson wrote: | | Google's interests are being served |
As result Google's short term interests are affecting their long term credibility and popularity. In the world of the internet - popularity can change very fast. It was only yesterday that Northern Lights and Lycos were the top search engines.
http://www.onlinemag.net/may02/OnTheNet.htm
| Quote: | | They have no responsibility whatsoever to tell anyone how their algo works and what any individual needs to do to rank well in their index. |
I am aware of this. In an effort to filter out irrelevant and spam sites they are also catching legitimate sites in their nets.
| Quote: | | Keeping things the same and allowing things to stagnate and become predictable and easy to manipulate is the quickest way to loose your edge in a very competitive industry. |
What is predictable about having a quality content based website that is being penalized because Google classifies it as being a "thin affiliate" site? I am not just talking about myself but a large amount of people I have come into contact with who were affected by the last algo change and are by no means "thin affiliates".
| Quote: | | As for not designating an official spokesperson, imagine the constant and never ending deluge of questions, threats, and accusations they would receive from webmasters! It would be like making Bill Gates's email and phone number available to every customer. |
Jeremy you seem to think that I was born yesterday. The point I was trying to make was that Google should have an official spokesperson who makes official announcements instead of unconfirmed reports from someone with 'multiple personalities'. I wonder does Bill Gates receive a deluge of questions or threats affecting his ability to run a company?
Ever heard of MicrosoftGuy?
Declan
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Declan O'Reilly
Sometimes it pays to stay in bed on Monday, rather than spending the rest of the week debugging Monday's code.
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Phil Tanny
Joined: 22 Aug 2003
Posts: 1324
Location: Gainesville Florida USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Declan OReilly wrote: | | The point I was trying to make was that Google should have an official spokesperson who makes official announcements instead of unconfirmed reports from someone with 'multiple personalities'. |
That's the mistake I always make, using logic to try to understand the real world.
I understand your frustration, but in a way GoogleGuy seems the perfect spokesman to webmasters from the worlds predominant search engine. Mysterious, flaky, unreliable, always changing. Kind of reminds you of the algos, eh?
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robertb
Joined: 09 Aug 2003
Posts: 1838
Location: Columbus, OH
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Declan OReilly wrote: | As result Google's short term interests are affecting their long term credibility and popularity. In the world of the internet - popularity can change very fast. It was only yesterday that Northern Lights and Lycos were the top search engines.
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Please keep in mind the interests of WEBMASTERS are not being served. It's hard to take off the blinders; we're a very very VERY small portion of the internet community, compared to the general surfers who are just surfing for information.
Google's efforts are much better spent pleasing this audience which don't give a hoot about algo changes, rankings updates, etc. All they care about is the end product and the growing percentage of Google searches shows that.
I can understand your frustration, I am too. But lets not forget those other search engines failed because they were TOO open to manipulation by webmasters, making the results horrible. If Google did officially share updates and algo changes for webmasters, it would only aid to the explotation of the results by ruthless webmasters.
Just imagine if Hotmail, Yahoo Mail, etc. all posted how they rank emails to qualify them as SPAM. While good webmasters would find it useful to make sure their emails get through, everyone knows they would be flooded with SPAM emails designed to by-pass the filters.
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