Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:47 pm Post subject: Review of engineseeker.com ??
Has anybody tried the software and web promotion services of this company? I spoke with them on the telephone today. They market software that submits your site to 700,000 "online resources." Cost is $499.00 setup and about $25.00 per month. They claim to represent over 8000 clients.
I tend to be skeptical of bulk submission companies and was wondering if anyone has had any experience with them...or similar companies...and the effect on web traffic.
Can't bulk submissions cause penalties from search engines?
I dont know anything about the company you mentioned, but I get the feeling it would be a less then efficient course of action.
$499 would go a long way on Overture or Google adwords
Plus you would start getting traffic instantly.
With pay per click you can test and scale up and down and pause a campaign. The flexibility is excellent.
From what you've said, your goal seems to be to get position in the serps over the long term. That doesnt happen over night. Even if you did use this company.
Write articles and submit them to many different ezine sites. I have written just three articles over the last few weeks and spent an afternoon submitting the same three articles to 5 different ezine sites.
When I do a search on google for the titles of my articles, I get an average of 50 link backs to my site for each search.
The whole excercise took a couple of days. Cost nothing in terms of money.
Im sure there are other opinions on this. I dont have any experience with the company you spoke of tho, so investigating your ROI (return on investment) if possible would be your first consideration.
Joined: 09 Aug 2003 Posts: 1838 Location: Columbus, OH
Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: Review of engineseeker.com ??
LadyRLR wrote:
site to 700,000 "online resources." Cost is $499.00 setup and about $25.00 per month. They claim to represent over 8000 clients.
I wouldn't trust this at all.
They're trying to show off with 700,000 but it's so huge that it just doesn't make sense. That's a red flag right there. Now if it said a few hundred I might trust it.
Probably just spamming of blogs, free for all pages, low traffic directories, etc. SAVE YOUR MONEY. _________________ Robert
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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 5:48 am Post subject: EngineSeeker.com
Robert,
To help answer questions about engineseeker.com...and this isn't meant to slam you by any means....
First off, I am the President of Evisions Marketing Inc and own engineseeker.com... You bring up some valid points however you are wrong to say "not trust" at all based on my claims.
To help clear things up maybe this will help you and others that have questions.
First as of July 8th, 2005 we currently have exactly 12,794 active advertisers / members who use our service monthly or even daily for that matter.
As for the 700,000 search engines, that is not correct and we do not state that. We state over 700,000 online resources that would include search engines, classified ad sites, directories, etc...
The pricing that was given is incorrect.... To be exact it is 449.95 for a one time set up and 24.99 per month. This includes phone and email support, optimization help, etc...
We work with major clients such as Wonka.com "Nestle corp", etc... if you are unsure who Wonka is, then watch the movie Charlie and the Chocolate Factory with Johnny Depp which is a reflection of Willy Wonka
Our network has advertised for "The Matrix" and for "LowerMyBills.com".
Last year I personally spent over 1.5 million in online advertising....
My traffic ranking is at 16,000 since launching EngineSeeker.com in Jan 2005 as this is our third installment site.
"Your traffic ranking is nothing" which makes me want to ask you why you are an expert at telling people what to do. Not that what you are doing is bad as you may want to help, but do that...help people and webmasters, don't slam other websites without having the proper knowledge to base it on.
So facts to help everyone out who has questions about any SEO service, etc...
There are several ways? to be seen on the web.
1) Submitting your own site to search engines, etc... (while this is free it takes allot of time and your effort will not usually pay off, as you are competing against 32 million .com's.)
2) PPC - (Google, Overture, 7Search, etc...) This is the best way to spend your money if you have it to spend. As Cloak stated, you are better off spending your money with PPC, however to make it simpler; if you have it to blow all in one shot then go ahead and do so. Again I spent 1.5 million last year... This will provide you with instant results on your website (if it is a winner, or a flop) because the traffic is targeted and instant. However if your budget doesn't allow you to test properly then you could blow your entire budget all in one shot, leaving you disappointed at the results.
3) SEO companies - There are many agency's out there who will help you out...however to optimize your site, market it correctly, etc... you will need a minimum of $4,000.00 to do so...and this doesn't even include a full launch, as you will need more for the actual advertising.
4) Submission Software, Traffic Programs, etc... (there are many out there) and yes, we happen to be one of them. However we are different in many ways. We offer tech support, traffic, guaranteed inclusion, and much more.
If any of you are serious about the net, then you have to promote...However in order to make money you have to spend it...so the answer is obvious... you have to go where you believe you can make it. Our service is cheap because of the number of users we have....I used to charge clients $40,000 per month to work, market and ensure they had a successful site..and even with that I would become sick to my stomach when I would see clients loose $10,000.00 in one day because of PPC and the next make $2,000.00...
It didn't make sense to me; so I created a service that would allow anyone from start up to mainstream corps to promote there site correctly while saving money...
Again the option is always there to spend more if you wish or nothing at all if you don't have it....
1) If you have an unlimited budget.... PPC is the way to go... GOOGLE is by far the best in all results and I have tested them all... Overture used to be the best, until Yahoo took over and made it a "money making machine" meaning that any site could get in the Overture network and promote PPC ads, creating false clicks and lower conversions...for those of you that advertise with Overture, you will know what I am speaking of.
2) If you have no budget....well, good luck...again you are competing with 32 million .com's not including the .nets, etc..etc..etc.. and major corps and advertisers who have been doing this for years....
3) If you have a small budget then submission software or companies that are similar to ours may be able to help.
Bottom line is that you have to do your research and understand that just because you have an affiliate website doesn't mean you are going to make a million online.... those day's are long gone..... however not impossible if you have your own product, or service to offer that is in demand. I do personally know of affiliates that earn 6 figures per year.... I could do it myself because I was involved with the internet when it started.....however I am fortunate enough to own a company which now takes all of my time.
Joined: 09 Aug 2003 Posts: 1838 Location: Columbus, OH
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: EngineSeeker.com
engineseeker wrote:
First off, I am the President of Evisions Marketing Inc and own engineseeker.com...
Thanks for stopping in.
First, I want to make it clear that I responded solely on the information provided by the poster here. You'd agree that most services that tout things like "we'll send your email to 1 million people a day" or "we'll send 100,000 visits to your site" are scams, including ones similiar to services that you offer. I was simply defining a stereotype and not your site individually that many beginners get conned into paying for false services.
Quote:
As for the 700,000 search engines, that is not correct and we do not state that. We state over 700,000 online resources that would include search engines, classified ad sites, directories, etc...
Your site does say "700,000 engines" not resources.
I'm curious, what % of your resources are of each type (SE, Class Ads, Directorys, and what's in the Etc. portion). Honestly, any search engines besides Google, Yahoo, or MSN is simply a waste of time; easily 90% of searches done on the net are at one of these services.
Do you submit each site to the same resources, or does it depend on niche? Quality traffic and inbound links arises from sites which are of the same topic as yours, while FFA pages and general Class Ad sites rarely generate QUALITY traffic.
My beef with people touting # of submissions is that is doesn't matter as much as the quality of submissions. I'd take one mention of a site on a CNN.com article over hundreds of thousands of submissions to Classified ad sites any day.
Quote:
"Your traffic ranking is nothing"
I'm not sure what you're refering to here, I don't recall anything about that in this post.
Quote:
1) Submitting your own site to search engines, etc... (while this is free it takes allot of time and your effort will not usually pay off, as you are competing against 32 million .com's.)
Submitting your site to the major indexes is dead (Yahoo, Google, MSN). Simply getting a few inbound links into your site will do the trick to get your site spidered and listed.
Quote:
If any of you are serious about the net, then you have to promote...However in order to make money you have to spend it...so the answer is obvious.
No offense, but of course you're going to say that, you wouldn't tell your clients that there are ways for them to promote their sites without spending money.
If you mean you must spend money on promotion to make it on the Net, that is very misleading. Allan, the host of these forums, advocates that you don't need to spend money. The only time I've spent money is promoting products of mine. When it comes to promoting affiliate sites, I've never spent a dime on submissions or PPC. Simply create a quality site and get quality inbound links and the traffic will flow in from the free search engines.
Quote:
2) If you have no budget....well, good luck...again you are competing with 32 million .com's not including the .nets, etc..etc..etc.. and major corps and advertisers who have been doing this for years....
Yea, but not all of them are in the niche of each site you promote.
Quote:
Bottom line is that you have to do your research and understand that just because you have an affiliate website doesn't mean you are going to make a million online.... those day's are long gone.....
Most people here aren't after making millions, simply a comfortable living.
Quote:
however not impossible if you have your own product, or service to offer that is in demand.
I agree, creating my own products is very lucrative, but requires much more work than managing my affliate sites.
Quote:
I do personally know of affiliates that earn 6 figures per year
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: EngineSeeker.com
No problem
See Robert, now this thread may be usefull to all of us. Didn't mean to come across as harsh to you; I would rather see positive statements that can help others. Slams, etc...just are a waste of space and really don't accomplish a thing.
However to answer your questions, and feel free to ask more if you wish.
[quote]You'd agree that most services that tout things like "we'll send your email to 1 million people a day" or "we'll send 100,000 visits to your site" are scams, including ones similiar to services that you offer. I was simply defining a stereotype and not your site individually that many beginners get conned into paying for false services.[/quote]
Your are correct in the above statement. There are many scams on the net, and they just don't involve SEO companies...they come in all types. So yes, many services that are similar in nature do scam uneducated webmasters....It's just sad that it is that easy to do.
[quote]Your site does say "700,000 engines" not resources.[/quote]
Maybe I will clear this one up.....not search engines; but engines... An engine is any site that is automated or dynamic in nature that takes submissions and posts them. It's just a term, but I will make it more clear on my site. Thanks
[quote]I'm curious, what % of your resources are of each type (SE, Class Ads, Directorys, and what's in the Etc. portion). Honestly, any search engines besides Google, Yahoo, or MSN is simply a waste of time; easily 90% of searches done on the net are at one of these services.[/quote]
The majority of our resources are FFA links as far as %.... however we do hit all of the major search engines and directories. We also can target international search engines, etc.... The list is alway's being updated, twice per month. As far as search engines that are worthless other than Google, Yahoo or MSN you are wrong. Let me clarify this.... Yahoo isn't a search engine but a directory that is comprised of human editors....Yahoo's goal is to utilize webmasters to "pay" to be included into the directory at $299 last time I checked and to be honest the directory is worthless...because their users use the search portion which is updated by "other" search engines. So the goal is to get listed on as many search engines, directories, ffa sites, etc...because many search engines pick this up and will get you listed much faster on Google, Yahoo, MSN, etc...
Also you are forgetting major sites such as AOL, EARTHLINK, etc.... remember these sites have search engine features which again utlize the listings from other engines.
[quote]Do you submit each site to the same resources, or does it depend on niche? Quality traffic and inbound links arises from sites which are of the same topic as yours, while FFA pages and general Class Ad sites rarely generate QUALITY traffic.[/quote]
Great questions
Our service allows the "user" to select where they want to submit. Many software programs will not allow you to do this.... Worse yet, many SEO companies will use software to bulk submit all of their clients to...."the same resources" which is a waste of time. Our job is to educate the user and let them run with the promotion to give a better understanding of how the web works.
[quote]My beef with people touting # of submissions is that is doesn't matter as much as the quality of submissions. I'd take one mention of a site on a CNN.com article over hundreds of thousands of submissions to Classified ad sites any day.[/quote]
Again, you are correct....the best placement or mention would be on a site that is used highly such as a CNN.com article... However look at it like this... I found this post right? Replied to it right? So again, I am on this site which I typically would not use as others are....so again, any mention on the net and any site you can get a link on or mention is well worth it.
DIRECTV is one of the most branded names out there...why? They don't just advertise on Cable Networks, they advertise using all methods....flyers, tv, radio, print, etc..... Even if one converts higher than the other, they will still advertise the same...again building the brand name
[quote]
"Your traffic ranking is nothing" [/quote]
[quote]I'm not sure what you're refering to here, I don't recall anything about that in this post.[/quote]
Simply on my statment of traffic ranking was this; that you were giving guidance but didn't really have a traffic ranking to build your own credibility up....not a big deal....however when you spoke it sounded like you understood the net very well, but your sites traffic ranking couldn't support your knowledge....again not a big deal.... will explain it in more detail if you wish...but I am not here to slam you by any means.
[quote]Submitting your site to the major indexes is dead (Yahoo, Google, MSN). Simply getting a few inbound links into your site will do the trick to get your site spidered and listed.[/quote]
Right, and wrong.... getting a few links will help, but why stop there? I have over 27,000 sites linking to engineseeker.com in some fashion...couldn't have done this just by doing a few inbound links
[quote]
If any of you are serious about the net, then you have to promote...However in order to make money you have to spend it...so the answer is obvious.
[/quote]
[quote]No offense, but of course you're going to say that, you wouldn't tell your clients that there are ways for them to promote their sites without spending money.
If you mean you must spend money on promotion to make it on the Net, that is very misleading. Allan, the host of these forums, advocates that you don't need to spend money. The only time I've spent money is promoting products of mine. When it comes to promoting affiliate sites, I've never spent a dime on submissions or PPC. Simply create a quality site and get quality inbound links and the traffic will flow in from the free search engines.[/quote]
Again you are right on the above statment....Again, let me clarify this...
In order to make it on the net you have to spend money to make money, or make it on the net.... Robert your time is money....meaning that if you only want to build a Forum that creates users who can share knowledge...that is fine....however you first have to get the site's name out there.... it doesn't matter how you do this, you are spending money...."PPC, HOSTING, SCRIPTS, (YOUR TIME) etc..." The bottom line is that everyone creates a website to be seen by others.... Even if you aren't in it to make money at first, well that is usually how it starts out, but after you get traffic, everyone generally tries to make money... Even on this Forum I see that Allan has affiliate links so he can make money off of this site It may only be enough to pay for hosting and that may be fine with him... Again everyone has different ideas on what they want to do with the net.
[quote]
2) If you have no budget....well, good luck...again you are competing with 32 million .com's not including the .nets, etc..etc..etc.. and major corps and advertisers who have been doing this for years....
[/quote]
[quote]Yea, but not all of them are in the niche of each site you promote. [/quote]
Correct again, not everyone is selling DVD players online...however most webmasters online are those who own affiliate sites....the remaining sites are business owners who "own" their product or service and will have a better chance of being seen....however, again with no budget, no understanding of how the net works,,,well you will be buried, because everything that you can think of that has been invented is already on the net.... Search engines are cluttered with junk and nothing more....that is why PPC is so valued at this point,,,,and that is why PPC is a money making machine....because it thrives on anyone that is trying to get noticed. Overture...excuse me..."Yahoo" doesn't care if you own an affiliate site and want to advertise it via PPC.... They could care less if you max your credit card out and do not make a dime....because they want your money and all of it.... Everyone of my clients are educated in our service... We charge what we charge, if customers want extra help then so be it... We try to guide people in the right direction so they don't spend their money in the wrong areas...
[quote]Most people here aren't after making millions, simply a comfortable living.[/quote]
And that is fine However many people have the desire to make more, so the correct answer would be to help people out with correct knowledge.
[quote]
however not impossible if you have your own product, or service to offer that is in demand. [/quote]
[quote]I agree, creating my own products is very lucrative, but requires much more work than managing my affliate sites.[/quote]
You are correct and that is why so many people run affiliate sites... but think of it like this...if you are promoted someone elses product who is really making the money which will answer your above and below response. If you could control the pricing, etc...you would make the money. However the people who make the real money are not the affiliate members...it's the site owners.... If you send traffic to a site I guarantee you are not getting credited for all sales. If someone calls in to make a purchase, how are they going to track you? The affiliates that do make 6 figures and I am speaking of $100,000 - $150,000 per year are those who understand how the internet works. The day's of luanching a site an making a million overnight are long gone, however not impossible if done correctly and if you have the time and money to promote... again sites that make millions are spending a ton of money on PPC as well as software, etc... to get noticed... You can't make money on the net if you don't have something to offer correct? So again, it takes money to make money....that is the rule of thumb with any business. You have to spend it to earn it or gain it back, and even that isn't guaranteed pending your product or service.
[quote]I do personally know of affiliates that earn 6 figures per year[/quote]
I thought you said those days were "long gone?"[/quote]
Robert I am willing to help answer questions in any way, however lets focus on more specific stuff to help people out
Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:46 pm Post subject: Re: 70,000 engine produce 70 visitors
[quote]
Does it really counts to submit 70,000 search engines? Does it produce expected traffic. My answer is a BIG NO......
Quality at engine goes a long way...not the quantity.....Does anyone produce that....[/quote]
Arvindkumar, you are wrong in stating this about sumbission to all resources not working..... You are correct about the quality, but the quanittity is everything.... Again, in my previous statement..... "Branding" is the biggest key.... In order to brand you have to be everywhere, if your not, you will get some traffic, but not the kind of traffic you are looking for.
I will give you an example.....
Goto alexa.com and type in your website address with the .com (ex. yoursite.com) and then hit search.... At that point click on traffic details.... You will see just how much your efforts are paying off...
If you want to compare then type in engineseeker.com and look at the results.... In 6 months I am at 16,000 as a traffic ranking???? Many clients that I have worked with were spending upwards of $15,000 per day on PPC to get a ranking like that.... I spend a fraction of that.
Second test...
Goto yahoo.com and type in (yoursite.com) in the search bar and hit search.... You will see how many pages are linking to you or have reference to your site..... With yours, you are approx 92....
Do the same thing with my site engineseeker.com and you will see approx 27,000 pages that reference my name....
Guy's not trying to argue a point, just fact on how webpromotion works to help all of you out.
Remember, I have been doing this since the begining, and am involved with the players on the net.... The players are company's like the old owner of Angelfire.com, ExactSeek, ExitExchange, Earthlink, etc... the list goes on and on....
Back in my starting day's I was right where you were, trying to figure out how to do better by visiting forms....
The answers were not helping me, so this is a fact, I quit my job and worked from home for 5 years, struggling to make a dime....however it did pay off;;;;even after spending over a half million in time, venture capital to create a service that would help everyone out to eliminate the strugle....
I generaate millions of dollars on the net for a reason, and I can tell you this, it's just not from one site.... I have over 200 websites that are active, and work exclusivly with clients who pay me over $200,000 per year just to help them market.... These are large corporations who have asked me to shut my business down to work for them for large salaries....
My answer to this is no...because I know how much I'm worth.
Not trying to be arrogant, just trying to help all of you.
Also, please notice, I'm not even pushing my product or trying to create link popularity.... I am just giving you something to compare your site to mine.
Fact, not everyone will beniit from my service...
Why - many people are dreamers and that is it.... they know what needs to be done, but will never do it.... The US is made up with a larger percentage of these type of people.
Fact, a small percentage of people will actually try, making somewhat of an income which is fine for them.....
Factl, only a very small fraction will actually do anything....these are risk takers, and risk takers will usually fail more often than not....however they are the ones who usually come out on top because they continue to learn, fail, and try again.
Donald Trump???? How many times has he failed.... I don't think that he lives in a box....I'm sure he has a ton of money right? But yes, he has filed Bk several time and still goes on.
I have been at financial risk before, filed a BK and still managed to earn millions on the net, and build several solid company's.
Every company that I have started or helped others start has generated over 1 million within 1 years time frame.... all done from internet advertising.
My background comes from television marketing with major players, all I did was applied the same techniques to the net and it didn't work at first, however it works now.
To each there own, as I stated earlier, spend your money where you feel comfortable.... many of you may not have a dime to spend.... so I would recommend using addme.com to start off.... its free submision to up to 13 engines, and there are great articles on there that could help each of you. That is one of the first places I started.
Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:54 pm Post subject: Another note about this forum
The ranking of this website is huge
There are reasons for this; promotion was in play, and also he is targeting business opportunity seekers which is one of the largest searches on the net.
I would think that you are all getting off topic with talking about promotion programs in the general affiliate discussion...
Maybe you guy's could have a promotion section on how to promote your affiliate sites better.
There are way's to do this, and I don't get involved with it...however there are company's that do; but again it cost money...
If any of you have design knowledge and are allowed to promote your sites the way you wish I can give you some hints on how to do so better With examples that don't involve my site, but others to show you results.
Kind of a crash course, but it's at no charge, and it may help you all get the boost you need.
If you want it just ask.... Please don't email me personally as I get to many per day' I would rather just reply to this forum as it is easier for me to do.
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:52 am Post subject: My own experience With so called SEO with exactseek
Dear Cris,
I am saying this because I have this fact with my SEO optimizer exactseek.com ( which was your own client ) and I do not see any change in ranking or as well as traffic.....What the hell....
Do you want me to believe that anyone can get my site in top 10 or 20 in one or two month????
Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 5839 Location: by the beach, Australia
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Another note about this forum
engineseeker wrote:
If any of you have design knowledge and are allowed to promote your sites the way you wish I can give you some hints on how to do so better With examples that don't involve my site, but others to show you results.
Kind of a crash course, but it's at no charge, and it may help you all get the boost you need.
With any luck, you'll start some worth while discussions. _________________ Allan Gardyne
... earning a good living from affiliate programs since 1998.
Learn how.
Subscribe now FREE Affiliate Program Tutorial
Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 5839 Location: by the beach, Australia
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: 70,000 engine produce 70 visitors
engineseeker wrote:
Goto yahoo.com and type in (yoursite.com) in the search bar and hit search.... You will see how many pages are linking to you or have reference to your site...
Do the same thing with my site engineseeker.com and you will see approx 27,000 pages that reference my name...
That's seems impressive.
However, I was curious to see how many actual links you have to engineseeker.com, so I tried this search at Yahoo...
link:http://www.engineseeker.com -site:www.engineseeker.com
(I used that search to eliminate links from your own site.)
Result: 23 links!
Whoops! That didn't work very well. So I tried a refinement of the search...
Thats a interesting finding....And Thats what I got the feeling while working on Internet.....There is no short cut to success ...and all Guru claiming quick traffic blast in a month or so are not telling you enough...
Dear Chris,
Please do not mind but please clear our doubt if we are wrong....
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:54 pm Post subject: From the Original Poster
Allan,
I appreciate the feedback and opinions from you, the other responders and from Chris. It is a very educational discussion. I love the forum and think that you have done a wonderful job.
I do apologize for posting in the wrong section. I'm rather new to the forum, but I should have researched further before posting. I will correct this with any future posts.
I truly wanted to get opinions from folks more knowledgeable about certain aspects of web promotion than I am. The deal quoted to me over the telephone (from my notes during the call) was 700,000 online resources for $499.95 setup (normal $600 setup fee) and $24.99 per month for up to 10 websites. This also included 24,000 guaranteed visitors in the form of pop-under ads.
Chris, please respond to Allan's findings to clarify for all of us.
I'm still a little confused about the value of the pop-under ads also. Is engineseeker saying that increasing traffic will also increase positioning?
Hello Allan and all
Sorry for the delayed response....
To help clarify links into a website, there are many factors to look at...
1) If you do type in link:http://www.engineseeker.com it will show approx 25 links...
2) if you just type in www.engineseeker.com or engineseeker.com it shows more (approx 20,000)... there are reasons for this.
Link popularity is based on many different factors.
Remember search engines scour the net "other webpages" to build it's database. Afterall, if Yahoo or Google didn't do this, then no one would use the site because there wouldn't be any content to search about.
So the answer is simple and has alway's been simple. Submit your site to every resource that you can.... It will not hurt you.
Again, my PR ranking for the site is a 5 at this point, and my traffic ranking is at 16,000; and again I just launched this version of the site in January.
Everyone is bringing up good points, however I am not here to sell my software by any means.... I am only trying to educate everyone.
You can do whatever you wish, however I started when the internet was in it's infancy stage, so I have learned alot.
-------
Arvindkumar - you wrote about exactseek which is one of our clients; they offer guaranteed inclusion, which is much cheaper than pay per click, and they have a vast network of engines.
To answer your question about anyone getting in top 10-20 positions in one month.... Well the answer is yes, if you know what you are doing.
Affiliate websites are hard to do, because you are only provided with a url/afid link which doesn't do anything for you.
Give me a page to create and I guarantee I will get it to the top. I have a client who pay's me $16,000.00 per month to do this. Again, it will not work if you do not have the control or knowledge on how to do so...
Also, it won't work with mainstream keywords.... for instance.... "hosting" you will never get to the top with a keyword like that, because the leading sites who are at the top already have built relevance and more over years, so it is near imposible to bump them out....
However, create variations and you will be at the top. The key is to build variations on multiple keywords, (100-200) on different pages, this will make you visible more easily.
I can't guarantee success for everyone because every website is different, however I can guarantee that it has worked for me and a large portion of my clients who follow the direction needed.
There are many tricks to doing this; and I have worked them all....found what worked, what didn't, etc... however even the ones that seemed usless still drive traffic to my sites....
So, I can only say this, promote like crazy even if you think it is a wast of time.... To only focus on one area will waste more of your time than anything....hit all aspects and you will see better results.
The links in is really never accurate on search engines, because pages are being updated daily..... instead of trying the link: method, just use your domain name with the .com; this will show you more results of your efforts.
Chris.
------
Rhonda,
Your question is simple..... Take two identical websites with the same content... Who will be #1? If they are the same in content and traffic, then it will rotate... However throw pop-unders at site #2, and this will increase it's traffic ranking which builds relevance to your site; making it look used...again this will in fact help you move up.
I would say that Pop-Under traffic isn't the answer to getting sales.... it just builds ranking...however I have done tracking for myself and many of my clients and sales or leads do occur....but in order to do so you have to capture a person quickly.
Orbitz.com is the best at doing this as is Lowermybills.com there pop-unders are small, interactive and create heavy click throughs...although not as good as PPC would do
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