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AllanGardyne
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Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 6:27 am
Post subject: Great idea, Phil!
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Phil Tanny has come up with what I think is a wonderful idea for this forum. I'm interested to hear what other people think of it.
Commenting on this topic started by davemorris...
Summer Project - Help
http://www.associateprograms.com/discus/ftopic11276.html
Phil says...
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...just today I was thinking it would be interesting, and educational for all of us, to have a section on this board where each thread was focused on one person's new Net biz.
Each thread could be titled with the person's name, and we could follow each person's progress over months and years, and assist where possible.
And plugging in to newcomers energy can be good for us slightly burned out old timers too...
Wally and Allan, here's a vote for a section of the board where each thread is about a specific new person and their attempt to join our world.
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So, what do think? We like to get members' input before starting a new section, to see if it's worth while.
I think I new section like this would be really useful. We do a little of this in the review section where some forum members improve their sites and return to tell us. A special section would encourage affiliates to tell us more about what they're doing. Also, they could get help from more experienced affiliates.
In affiliate marketing, you often have plug away for months before seeing significant revenue. A "Follow my progress" forum section might encourage affiliates to keep going instead of giving up when success was just around the next corner.
Would you read posts in a "Follow my progress" section?
Would you take part, talking about your site, or helping others?
Thanks again, Phil, for a wonderful idea.
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EdmundLoh
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edburdo
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Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:08 am
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I think I would contribute. I would definately be reading and posting on other peoples sites. And I think I could talk about one or two of mine. I am not terribly succesful, but I would be willing to share what I have.
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Last edited by edburdo on Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Phil Tanny
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Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:09 am
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Glad you like this one Allan, hope it works out. I want some shares when you take it public. 
Here's some follow on thoughtage:
We might call this "Allan's Affiliate School" and think of it as a real school.
In a real school both teacher and student have well defined roles. The teacher designs a lesson plan, the students follow it, step by step.
It's not just a big room full of people shouting a lot of inspired ideas at each other.
I think Allan's Affiliate School would be most productive, and thus interesting, if the teachers provided some structure, and the student's took some responsibility.
TEACHERS:
I'd like to see us focus our advice within some structured sequence, like this as an example:
Step 0: Pre-testing, is this student ready to start?
Step 1: Niche research
Step 2: Merchant research
Step 3: Keyword research
Step 4: One keyword rich article per day
Step 5: Link building
Step 6: Post-testing, were the goals accomplished?
A lesson plan. You start here, you travel step by step down a well marked road, you end at success.
(Not, here's a million cool things you might try in random order)
STUDENTS:
Before we take time out of our businesses to help a competitor start theirs, we'd like some assurance we'll get the pay day of seeing the newcomer succeed. Right?
Before we devote a months long thread to somebody, how about asking them to first confirm they are interested in following a somewhat specific lesson plan?
Want your own thread that's all about you?
Are you serious, or not?
(Not just pop in to the board, start a thread, ask a million random questions, and then wander off never to be heard from again)
How about an area where prospective students apply for their own thread? In this pre-testing area we could for instance discover whether the student can write, a pre-condition for success.
If the group agrees to take on this student, Wally creates the thread.
You know, how about instilling a sense of obligation to the teacher that will be one more reason for the student to keep on trucking if/when discouragement arrives?
(I stayed on the varsity football team in high school a half year longer than I wanted cause I was too chicken to tell a no nonsense coach I'd decided I'd rather surf, smoke pot and chase girls than play more football. )
How about if the students are required to start every post with, "I AM ON STEP X" and then all replies should be about that step until that step is complete.
How about real names students? Not sure how much time I want to invest in "snoopydog" or other unknown anonymous persons.
SUMMARY
Teachers agree to present a structured lesson plan.
Students agree to follow it.
Every post is about what is required to complete the current step.
A real school.
Hope something in there works!
Sincerely,
Professor I. B. Blowhard
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robertb
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Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:15 pm
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Sounds like an interesting idea.
| Quote: | | Would you take part, talking about your site, or helping others? |
Personally, I probably wouldn't talk about my sites and I probably wouldn't check out other sites too often. I rarely visit the review requests section of this forum; I simply don't have the time to look in on individual sites.
I do believe it's great to have a few examples of succcess to study as a beginner and a place to ask questions. Perhaps this is something I picked up from Martell, but I'd rather spend most of my time actually working on my sites and increasing my revenue.
Don't get me wrong, I love to contribute here, anyone can vouch for that. But I wonder sometimes if I had this resource when I first started if I would have ever got off the ground. I would have found myself asking question after question, not really getting anywhere with my sites because I'd be spending all of my time here; sort of "paralysis by analysis."
Would we be sending the wrong message that if beginners have any problems at all they can come to us and we'll fix their problems? When really the best way to learn is to just start building your sites and learn from experience! And for the people that give beginners advice, are they really "qualified" to tell beginners how to build their sites, when these "qualified" individuals are spending all of their free time posting here and not actually working on their sites.
I hope no one takes offense to my comments. I simply like to stir the pot. As Charlie used to quote: if all of us agree, then only one of us is necessary. 
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Phil Tanny
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Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:53 pm
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Great pot stirring Robert, that's what a forum is for.
I agree that question asking and research etc can get out of hand, and take up (way) too much time sometimes.
I was trying to address that also in the post above. If we were to establish a "school" can we steer it away from general rambling discourse and focus the discussions on the process of taking someone down a pre-defined, step by step, _action_ path?
Once the outline is established, newcomers who are willing to submit to the plan are moved like cattle down the assembly line, step to step to step to success. If they don't keep moving, they lose their personal thread.
In other words, in this way of looking at it, you aren't allowed to "analysis by paralysis". You sign up to ride this train, or you don't. You keep moving down the tracks, or you get pushed off.
Are we qualified to teach? Very reasonable question. The phrase "you get what you pay for" might come to mind here. That said, it seems pretty clear that most newcomers are not going to pay real experts for one on one consulting, and not only that, most of these experts are not interested in selling that service. Allan gives it away for free here like crazy, but I'd bet hiring him to do the same thing would be challenging, eh?
I see Allan playing the role of headmaster, and the rest of us being brainstormers, hand holders etc.
As example, Allan might create a page on each of the main parts of a lesson plan outline, along the lines of what was mentioned above. He could review ideas from we brainstormers, and add the best ideas as details within the outline. He's the expert final authority, we're the worker bees.
I must disagree that the best way to learn is to just jump in there, reinvent the wheel, and start doing stuff and see what works. I don't mean to brag, but I think I may be the world's leading authority on this silly technique and I can certify it only works if you have unlimited time and resources to pursue success randomly. It only brings success if you are already successful in other words, imho. It's the slow boat to China method.
I agree that choosing to work on your own site rather than on others makes perfect sense to me. However, if we're both going to come here and offer suggestions from time to time, maybe doing it a more structured manner would yield more bang for the buck?
One way to look at, that's all.
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robertb
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Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:16 pm
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Just a quick note here, then I'll post more later.
| Phil Tanny wrote: |
I must disagree that the best way to learn is to just jump in there, reinvent the wheel, and start doing stuff and see what works. |
I didn't mean to reinvent the wheel, but actually read and learn a little bit first, then jump in and get your feet wet, instead of constantly asking questions every step of the way.
It's like reading about baseball. Say you've never heard of the sport and I'm trying to describe it to you. It doesn't matter how smart you may be, you really won't "get it" until you play in a game, or at least watch one. Or with driving; you really don't understand it until you've actually gotten behind the wheel and driven yourself, as opposed to reading about it in a book.
I'm a big believer that there is only so much you can learn from reading, but you'll learn the most from your life experiences (ie. what works, what doesn't, etc). Or maybe that's just because I'm a college student that dreads reading...
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Phil Tanny
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Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:18 pm
Post subject:
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I apologize for all the words, my idea machine seems to be
stuck in the on position today.
One of the frustrations for new folks is few of the more
experienced webmasters want to give out the URL's of their
sites.
How about a group effort site?
Allan picks a topic. We/he do some keyword research and
develop a list of keywords to build articles around.
New students, and other volunteers, are encouraged to
research and write articles for this site. Some blowhards
on this site have written 780 posts! Surely they could
write a real article for the group site once in awhile, eh?
Maybe new students are required to write an article or two
for the group site before they start getting personal
attention in their own thread?
Hey students, get started writing articles right away.
Stop analzying, start writing, right now, today.
Over time a large site is constructed that can be shown to
everyone with all details such as income, keywords etc etc
disclosed.
The income generated from the site might build a scholarship
fund (pay for SBI etc) that students could apply for by
somehow proving they will make good use it.
I think a project like this might generate quite a bit
of press.
OK, time for me to shut up. Over to you guys.
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davemorris
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Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:28 pm
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Phil,
I have to say (as a sort of newbie) that your proposal is one of the best I have come across in the time I have been looking into getting an internet business up and running.
I have been stuck in the analysis paralysis mode for some time now and have read so much stuff that my mind is awash with I dont know how many 'best' ways to make it work. This was one of the reasons I thought it would be a good idea to work with my son on our Summer Project (see link in Allan's original post for this topic). It was a chance to get back to basics.
The idea to set up a site that can be used as an example gets around one of the main problems for newbies in that it gives access to evidence that it is possible to build an internet business. This is something that is really lacking on forums in general as very few people are willing to show exactly what is making money for them - they want to protect their market and rightly so. Would Coca Cola give away their recipe? Snowball in hell comes to mind!
I would think that a critical ingredient would be finding enough willing (and able) schoolteachers. With the exception of one or two who have already supported your initiative there does not seem to be much of an uptake so far. Maybe it would be a good idea for Allan to give your proposal an airing in his newsletter and ask for volunteers there.
As for the income from the site it might be an idea to give it to charity. It would make the project all the more worthy, something that may inspire others to contribute.
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edburdo
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Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:55 pm
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If you do a class route, I think it should be very structured. Each class is limited to a number of students. All topics are discussed in a "private" section of a forum. With the knowledge that those threads will be made public after X months.
The teacher has a list of possible niches you can choose from. Something fairly easy, yet could make some money. We stay away from the "get rich quick" topics (dating, internet marketing, gambling, etc).
Each person has to follow the guidelines as they go. Anyone falling behind gets a little help from the teacher and fellow students. Anyone not participating at all gets booted.
Honestly, I think you could offer this as a service for a reasonable amount of money. I think many people would do it.
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deepsix
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Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:03 pm
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Wow! Extremely interested student here! I will be starting my affiliate career in late August as that's when we've decided we can afford SBI (after holidays, etc.). After reading and reading for two months, I have to admit I'm itching to jump now!
I know I'm not supposed to, but I already have a couple of niche ideas in mind, with one developed so well that I have 97 article ideas laid out already.
I would be a willing guinea pig, as would many others I'm sure.
Vicky
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edburdo
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Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:28 pm
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<offtopic>
Deepsix...
start writing those articles now. Write them for several niches. Do some keyword research and write more articles.
Then, when you get SBI, you will already have a large chunk of content to start with. You'll get a big boost.
</offtopic>
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Phil Tanny
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Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:57 pm
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| davemorris wrote: | | Phil,I have to say (as a sort of newbie) that your proposal is one of the best I have come across in the time I have been looking into getting an internet business up and running. |
Thank you Dave. I use the volume brainstorming method, some of the ideas work out just by the laws of random chance.
| davemorris wrote: | | I have been stuck in the analysis paralysis mode for some time now and have read so much stuff that my mind is awash with I dont know how many 'best' ways to make it work. |
Welcome to the club! Seriously, I doubt there are many of us here who haven't passed through that phase at sometime or another. We are victims of our own good fortune, _way_ too many options available to us on the Net.
| davemorris wrote: | | The idea to set up a site that can be used as an example gets around one of the main problems for newbies in that it gives access to evidence that it is possible to build an internet business. |
Here's the classic example site in case you haven't discovered it yet. Allan is the pioneer:
http://www.associateprograms.com/search/site-build-it.shtml
| davemorris wrote: | | I would think that a critical ingredient would be finding enough willing (and able) schoolteachers. With the exception of one or two who have already supported your initiative there does not seem to be much of an uptake so far. |
Yes, I agree. It won't surprise me a lot if it fizzles out. In fairness to readers, a big idea is one thing, and a functioning reality is another. If we build it, they may come.
This is just one opinion, but imho the need for teachers is greatly reduced if we ruthlessly strip out all the stuff that is nifty, but not essential.
In his post above, Robert said "just do it". He's right, all the info anyone could need is already here on this site. What is perhaps needed are supportive but demanding friends who don't let us get away with reading and not doing.
Are we going to write articles today, or not? Just keep asking the question over and over as new people arrive and walk in to the line of fire.
| davemorris wrote: | | Maybe it would be a good idea for Allan to give your proposal an airing in his newsletter and ask for volunteers there. |
A supportive form, example sites, making it simple, etc these are really Allan's leadership ideas I'm recycling. He might give his own ideas a new suit of clothes and run it by a new group of readers.
| davemorris wrote: | | As for the income from the site it might be an idea to give it to charity. It would make the project all the more worthy, something that may inspire others to contribute. |
I like that better than my scholarship idea. Any of us here, veteran or newbie, are lucky enough to be helping others beyond our community. You've got my vote. I'd love to see Allan announce the quarterly charity donations in his newsletter, that would motivate me.
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Eugen
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:32 pm
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I like the idea, Phil. I too would love to see a section like that on this forum.
Keeping a log of my progress, knowing that everybody could see it would really determine me to work harder to improve.
I visit another forum (not marketing related) that has a missions section where newbies can keep a diary of their progress, or set themselves missions or goals to achieve in a certain amount of time. They can check each other?s progress and often, some of the experts post their thoughts and suggestions.
It is a real boost of confidence when the others guide you and point out which mistakes you need to take care of and which things you are doing great.
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